Kentucky fire department facing thousands in fines

[NJFFSA16]

Fire department facing thousands in fines
GEORGETOWN, Ky. (AP) - The Scott County Fire Department is
facing more than $21,000 in fines for workplace safety violations.
During inspections in May and June, state investigators noted 15
violations that ranged from firefighter safety at emergency scenes
to improper posting of safety warnings.
Scott County Judge-Executive George Lusby called the findings
"one-sided" and said he planned to appeal some of the violations.
The violations, according to a July 16 notice, included the
failure to keep two firefighters outside of burning buildings to
monitor others' whereabouts, and the failure to have a plan to
treat firefighters exposed to blood or other bodily fluids.
Every problem noted is already corrected or in the process of
being addressed, Lusby said.
Last week, a separate OSHA complaint investigation resulted in
the temporary closing of one of the county's two fire stations.

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[hwoods]

THIS IS BULLS**T

ANOTHER ARGUEMENT FOR REMOVING THE FIRE SERVICE FROM JURISDICTION OF AGENCYS LIKE THESE YO YOs. THIS IS STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. A FIRE STATION IS SHUT DOWN??? STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.

[glowpop]

Quote from hwoods;

"ANOTHER ARGUEMENT FOR REMOVING THE FIRE SERVICE FROM JURISDICTION OF AGENCYS LIKE THESE YO YOs. THIS IS STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. A FIRE STATION IS SHUT DOWN??? STUPID. STUPID. STUPID."

Why is this stupid? Are you saying that the safety and well being of fire fighters is stupid?

The laws regarding two in two out and blood borne pathogens are not some rules passed in the last year. They have been around for a while. The inspections occured in May and June. The county fire department could have been addressing these problems since the inspections turned up the violations and they are just now in compliance. OSHA inspections normally have exit interviews and they normally will involve a discussion with the safety officers and the executives of the company involved (FD Chief) of the violations found. The fact that they are addressing them now is good. The fact that it took an inspection to find the problem leads me to believe that someone wasn't doing their job in the first place.

The reason for the fire station being shut down wasn't mentioned in the article. There may be good justification for that. If the workplace is unhealthy or unsafe, then the owner (read that as the County) needs to make it safe or it shouldn't be occupied or used by county employees.

Now go ahead and engage your brain.

[ccvfd114]

WOW this is the frist i have heard about this. and i;m form kentucky. i fill sorry for the Scott County Firefighters i meet a few of them at Kentucky State fire school. thay all seemed sharp and fast on there feet. and all around good people. As matter of fact
a scott was one of the teachers teaching firefighter saftey
sad for scoot Co firefighters

[Firebraun]

ANOTHER ARGUEMENT FOR REMOVING THE FIRE SERVICE FROM JURISDICTION OF AGENCYS LIKE THESE YO YOs. THIS IS STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. A FIRE STATION IS SHUT DOWN??? STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.

Mr. Woods, can you explain why you think that? I'm sure there's something more to the story...

I sure don't see "2 in, 2 out" or a requirement to have a bloodborne pathogen exposure plan as a bad thing...

Sounds like these guys better get on the ball and start playing by the rules. Those laws are there for our safety. I fail to understand how any firefighter could think these rules are "stupid."

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Re: THIS IS BULLS**T

Originally posted by hwoods
ANOTHER ARGUEMENT FOR REMOVING THE FIRE SERVICE FROM JURISDICTION OF AGENCYS LIKE THESE YO YOs. THIS IS STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. A FIRE STATION IS SHUT DOWN??? STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.

THE REASON THE FIRE SERVICE IS UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THESE YO'S YO'S IS BECAUSE WE CANNOT POLICE OURSELVES. WE HAVE PROVEN THAT TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHY THAT FIREHOUSE WAS CLOSED. PERHAPS IT WAS AN IMMINENT HEALTH HAZARD. WOULD THAT BE STUPID? DO YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT TWO-IN, TWO-OUT IS STUPID? DO YOU NOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS FD? MAYBE THERE WAS A GOOD REASON FOR THIS INVESTIGATION.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Woodsie is usually "on the ball"....everyone can have an off day on the forums.....

[MalahatTwo7]

Just a few words here...

First, I am wondering if hwoods is not a little bit too passionate when reading this article. I think that mostly he is concerned with the closing of a fire house, which for any of us is a "bone of contention".

However, in this neck of the woods, we have Workman's Compensation Board (aka WCB). It would seem that the State Investigators perform a similar duty here. WCB is mostly for safety related violations/watch dog stuff, making sure that we follow the proper protocols etc, however.... there is a bit of a detour too. We have also have some WCB inspectors who think they are also Building Code/Electrical inspectors too.

I don't have a problem with the inspections in general, they are a good idea. My only "beef" is when a person tries to tell me things need fixing/changing, when he is not certified/qualified to say those things need doing. It really gets me going when fines are issued based on those "infractions", particularly when the work done was properly inspected/certified "correct" by qualifed personnel.

[ThNozzleman]

Every problem noted is already corrected or in the process of being addressed, Lusby said.

What the heck is the "process of being addressed?" I just hope they aren't like our city council/management. They've been "addressing" things for years; but nothing ever changes.

[Weruj1]

ease up on H .............lets see what he meant ..........also didnt we read about this group fighting about aiding their neighbors ? or something ?

[hwoods]

OK. Here Is............

I've said it before, and here it is again. Taking money out of one government pocket to put it back in another is STUPID. Forcing the issue is one thing, This stuff about "fines" is another entirely. IT'S WRONG. If this group has 2 stations and 1 is shut down, they have lost 50% of their capability. That's not rocket science. My Rand McNally shows Scott County as being north of Lexington and it is listed as having a population of about 30,000. Hardly a bastion of wealth and influence. A jurisdiction like this is pinching every penny right now because of a lot of things beyond their control. THERE HAS TO BE A MUCH BETTER WAY OF HANDLING PROBLEMS THAN THIS! And, don't even think for one minute that I'm trying to feel sorry for a bunch of mutts. I'm not. The BIG losers in this are the people in those two stations and the citizens that they protect. Will someone be laid off or will some apparatus be sidelined to find the money to pay the fines? If criminal intent can be proven here, that's one thing. If not, then work WITH the appropriate authority to fix the problem. Don't take it out on the victims. Stay Safe....

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

If this group has 2 stations and 1 is shut down, they have lost 50% of their capability.

If this group has 2 stations and 1 is a safety hazard, 50% of their FF are at risk.

My Rand McNally shows Scott County as being north of Lexington and it is listed as having a population of about 30,000.

But do you think that they might be able to read there? Or do you think that they may receive some type of training there. FF safety is not a secret issue. It's out in the forefront of the fire service dialogue today. If a Chief Officer in this country is placing their FF at risk, he is doing so with FULL KNOWLEDGE of the issue.

Lairdsville wasn't the bastion of wealth and influence either.

THERE HAS TO BE A MUCH BETTER WAY OF HANDLING PROBLEMS THAN THIS!

Then what is it?

[Jonathan Bastian]

Re: OK. Here Is............

Originally posted by hwoods
If this group has 2 stations and 1 is shut down, they have lost 50% of their capability. That's not rocket science. My Rand McNally shows Scott County as being north of Lexington and it is listed as having a population of about 30,000. Hardly a bastion of wealth and influence.

Scott County is immediately north of Lexington. It is home to a Toyota manufacturing plant, the one that makes all the Camrys, Siennas and (I believe) Tundras sold in the US. It is a combination FD; I believe the "2 stations" refers to the 2 manned stations. I believe they have 3 rural stations that are staffed solely by the volunteers/POCs. They also have a response agreement with the city of Georgetown, another career dept.

And for the person who asked why it was closed: apparently building code requires a firewall and specific ventilation between the apparatus bay and another area of the building. This is supposedly under construction, but since it is not complete, they closed the building.

[neiowa]

And one can also assume that a substantial portion of Scott Co KY now is without fire protection. What is the result? The remaining station finally arrives at fire to find that it has progressed substantially beyond what otherwise would have occured. Does that improve firefighter safety? How about meeting the mission of preservation of life and property? Hardly.

OSHA? Think IRS or EPA in jackboots. Has been terrorising private business for years. Regard their "issues" with skepticism until the entire picture is seen. What is the entire litany of problems? Posting warning labels? How about the good old OSHA citation for using a drop cord? OSHA has used that one many times on private business to advance their fund collection program.

Perhaps the OSHA supporters here work for departments with limitless cash to satisfy the idle whims of a government "inspector". If a typical organization working on a problem means we will solve as best we can critical problems and when we have extra cash, for which there is no gainful use, we will waste it on changing/fixing trivial crap issues.

Work with the department to solve the serious issues and ignore the minor (like there is a difference to a gov't inspector). Fines are definately BS.

This is the list of violations as reported. http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...al/6355366.htm

• Improper uniforms for fighting grass fires.
• Failure to keep two firefighters outside of burning buildings to monitor others' whereabouts.
• Failure to have a plan to treat firefighters exposed to blood or other bodily fluids.
• Continued use of two fire engines that needed repairs and failure to maintain vehicle maintenance records.

Other violations cited appear relatively minor, such as not keeping safety information on hand for handling gasoline or degreaser.

[Bones42]

Well, here's my take on this. None of the cited violations appear to be a one time event. They seem to be ongoing problems. Was it the FF's themselves that called OSHA in hopes that maybe these things would finally get taken care of? Maybe fines are necessary (And should be higher) for people to take their heads out of their cabooses and fix the problems, not wait for someone to get hurt/killed. Wake up folks, they are punishing a FD for not taking care of their own people. Do we need more dumb$$$ laws that are common sense? Again, we (the FF service) continue to be our own worst enemies. Instead of fixing the problems, we blame OSHA for fining them. And as was stated before, a good sign of a company is how they handle the "little" things (like paperwork), if they can't have that in order, don't expect the big things to be in order either.