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Minneapolis Using Volunteers To Fill Vacant Positions

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  • #31

    I dont scab is the word you want...

    SCAB-1. A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
    2. An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
    3. A person hired to replace a striking worker.

    Nah... scab dont work.

    Look at it this way... this is how I think of it anyways. We are big on covering our own butts right? Well lets see the chances of the city actually hiring more full-time firemen to make up for previous cuts? Porbably slim to none. So now do you want to run understaffed engines? Or shut down engine companies and ladder co.s?

    Now I know it may not seem practical to you guys but to tell you the truth, I think it sounds fine. Its going to get people in there to cover your full-time buds butt.

    So lets see... do we go with personal and public safety? Or personal safety? If you dont bring in someone to fill the spots, than you probably will end up shutting down stations. Get over it, its not like the city is going to go to a complete volunteer system, its just a temporary fix.
    Firefighter/EMT Mitch Cowen
    Hose Co. 1 1st Lieutenant
    Randolph Fire Co. Inc


    • #32
      Staffing reductions are hitting almost every fire department and we will do what we have always done, more with less.

      Sure let's just keep doing more with less. How about we cut staffing even further.

      The fire service will NEVER receive funding for adequate staffing and training if people continue to accept this "more with less" BS.



      I am really getting tired of this "I am an IAFF member but..."

      One more thing.
      "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."



      • #33
        Saint Paul Question

        I'm keeping pretty close tabs on Saint Paul and as far as I know they didn't lay anyone off. They do have a hiring freeze (surprise).

        In Minneapolis over a dozen IAFF brothers retired so that there would be room for some of the newer firefighters who were looking at layoffs. Someone find me another job where someone is willing to take retirement even a week earlier to help someone they probably don't even know.


        • #34
          Someone find me another job where someone is willing to take retirement even a week earlier to help someone they probably don't even know.

          But you are right on point.


          • #35
            First off, if you let the city do something like this on even a small scale, it WILL mushroom and eat up more paid union jobs. This is unacceptable. We all can agree that rersponse times are better when there is a crew on station, right? Where is there anything to be gained for the public with this idea(because that is all it is at this point, an idea.)?? Save a few tax dollars. Should union jobs be filled by vols or poc?? Heck no. What are you going to do? Wait for the vol to get to the station so you can go??
            I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
            "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

            "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."


            • #36

              I apologize in return for my reaction. You can see how I might take it that way as you did use my quote.

              Captain Gonzo...

              Gee small jobs that unionized companies wouldn't touch? You wouldn't mean like my small volly FD that runs maybe 50 calls a year? Again we can justify anything we want whether it is oh I can scab contracting becsuae no union contractor would want this job because it is too small. But I can't justify being a volly on that department on my off days because it makes me a scab.


              Did I say that was a good thing? I challenge you to show me that I did. It is unfortunately a reality of the fire service today. If I had my way we wouldn't be losing an engine and a truck to another quint at work, we wouldn't be losing 3 MPO slots, we would fill the 3 positions that were lost through attrition, we would add an additional FF to each engine to give us 4, we would add 2 additional FF to the truck to give us 5, we would add another EMT or Med to the ambulances to give up 3. Is it going to happen right now? No, it isn't and we have tried to explain our position over and over and over. Would having all that staffing make us safer, God yes. Is it going to happen when we have a chief who tells us he can cut our staffing by more than a third and still be safe? No. So whether you liked hearing it or not it is cold, stark reality that we will do more with less as call volume continues to go up and resources continue to be cut by those that control the money.


              If the union wants to end 2 hatting end it all and allow no one to work any other job at all. Otherwise your argument holds no water. I am a Union member, I went to our state capitol with the brothers to make our wishes known on the shared revenue issue, I am intuned to the issues, I make my opinions on those issues known, I am a member of the Safety and health committee. My being a volunteer on my off days has nothing to do with my committment to the Union. Sorry you can't differentiate between the 2.

              I just can't wait for the next salvo....YIPEE...(Quoting Charlie Brown "Dopn't you know a sarcasm when you hear one?")

              Stay safe out there everyone,

              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


              • #37
                I didnt metion any names..... But since you brought it up.. I am a FIREFIGHTER, I belong to the IAFF..a FIREFIGHTERS union. Dont muddy up the argument by being unrealistic. If you hold to the old "well firefighters work side jobs, depriving someone of a paycheck", then any other trade union member that is on a combination Union department is just as guilty. Your little village is not what worries me. What concerns me is when urban, professional firefighters find it necessary to boss around career personnel in some areas of this country. It then becomes ALL IAFF members problem. (Or it should).These people (and they know who they are)DO act like they are doing the IAFF a big favor by being members. They dont complain when they get raises, a 42 hour work week, the ability to grieve their complaints. They take. They dont respect the very people that helped them secure THEIR careers. Instead of accepting "this is the way it has to be these days", we should be rising up to protect OUR jobs, our lives and the public that depends on us. But why do it? We will just get Joe Blow from down the road to volunteer or POC and that will solve our problems. Management can say "Look, we are saving money". I say at what cost?
                IAFF-IACOJ PROUD


                • #38
                  FyredUp, perhaps I misinterpreted your comment as being flippant about staffing cuts. I apologize. I am glad to see that you participate in your union.

                  My point is still valid. We as a fire service have a poor record when it comes to putting pressure on our elected officials. Here in Illinois the union is the loudest fire service voice in Springfield. We are making good progress. Many bills we support benefit all firefighters. I challenge the entire fire service to step up and participate and make our voice so loud it cannot be ignored.

                  I also lobby at my state capitol. I would like to see many more do the same. The government bends over backwards to find money for law enforcement. Why do we have to fight so hard just to keep existing funds?
                  "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."



                  • #39
                    temporary volunteers

                    Ok first off I am totally against the whole idea in the first place....but lets just say this idea was to move forward. Where would these vol's. come from? How well are they trained...who insures them? What would they be responsible for as far as duties? I used to be a volunteer and I do have respect for them. I also know that you never know what you are gonna get when you call for one. You may get a high-speed top notch pro....or a whacker. I would feel uncomfortable on the fireground with that level of uncertainty as to "who's got my back". Just my opinion.


                    • #40
                      whose got your back whacker or pro?

                      And there has never been a Paid IAFF Firefighter that you wouldn't want covering your back? Why is this forum so IAFF vs "vollie", we the 'vollies' aren't after 'your' (IAFF Ff's) jobs, My dept. works very frequently and very well with a small village paid (IAFF I think) dept. here locally. The village approached us (my VFD) several years ago, asking if we would take over the village, (it's +/- 1/2 in our township), our dept unanimously rejected, their request/offer. I hope none of our brothers in Minn. lose their jobs, I pray for safe staffing and enough equipment for them. The reality of the budget is that a reality....hope the end result is in the best interests of safety for our brothers and their community, but lets not make this an us vs them issue. I live in my vol. district, I work in a paid village, I wanna be safe at work and at home too! I know the outlying vol. depts around Minn. support them and want them to stay and be safe, I also know that comes the day of the big one, and they come in mutual aide, that they will have your back covered.........

                      God Bless and be safe out there.
                      (should now be CharlieRFD,past,Pres.), but I've had this screen name for so long, I'm keeping it..., besides I'm Deputy Chief now.
                      BE SAFE OUT THERE
                      NEVER FORGET


                      • #41
                        if for some small chance that volunteers do fill in the empty slots for a bit but later on the city decides to fill them back with full time slots, will the POC firefighter expect to get first shot at the full time slots?

                        i just hope they think long and hard and listen to the fire dept before deciding something.
                        NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
                        IACOJ Attack

                        Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.


                        • #42
                          Charlie, my point is not a matter of "us vs. them", it was simply that when I work with a FF from my Department I know what to expect from them because we went through the same testing process, the same acedemy and we are all on the same page when it comes to SOP's. I know there a great Firefighters out there who happen to be Volunteers, but in my experience the consistency of knowledge and training is not the same. Please don't take that as a put down folks because I really do not mean it as one, that is just the way I see it.


                          • #43
                            What happened to the esprit de corps? All for one and one for all?
                            I find it disturbing that we a nation of fire service personnel; a brotherhood of firefighters until jobs are on the line.
                            I am not pro-union; I am not anti-union. I peacefully co-exist with them.
                            I find the events as described in Minneapolis to border on the ludicrous. Here's why: if they are eliminating 42 jobs from the budget, then the mayor and council is saying that they do not need the 42 firefighters. If they pink slip them and bring in vollies to replace them, then even I would stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the others in protest. You can't say that you are closing shop and then open up in Mexico and not eat a whole lot of you-know-what.
                            For those who see it as an opportunity to get on a paid department, I would venture to guess that the 42 will have some type of preferential hiring or recall rights per the contract.
                            And besides, if you want to get on a paid department, then do what everyone else does; test and get on the list.
                            I hate the word "scab". I was in the UAW for 13 years and went through THREE strikes in that time. Everyone who crossed the picket line was a "scab". If jobs are plentiful, then no one seems to notice, but in the tight job market, you are a scab if you are simply trying to provide for your family and eek out a living.
                            I understand the union's concern about losing jobs to non-union. I also understand that we have to provide for the public's safety. Please don't put that on the bargaining table OR the chopping block.
                            Cities have to make up their minds when it comes to how much and what type of fire service they provide for their citizens. They should never be put in the middle of fiscal malfeasance. One less park with water fountain and those nifty four color fliers that they printed by the millions will go a long ways to paying for more protection.
                            Cutting the public safety should NEVER be an option. Period.
                            Now, can we stop using that word "scab"? For me? Brother? MIKEY? Please?
                            Visit www.iacoj.com
                            Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                            RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)


                            • #44
                              Chief R... If you look at my posts on this subject, nowhere do I use the word "scab". Volunteer firefighters are not scabs. My thoughts are directed at my fellow union members.
                              IAFF-IACOJ PROUD


                              • #45
                                CR clears throat.
                                WHOOPS! NEVERMIND!
                                Visit www.iacoj.com
                                Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                                RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)


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