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Minneapolis Using Volunteers To Fill Vacant Positions

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  • #16
    There are some vollies that shouldn't be vollies, but there are some that rival full-time paid firefighters. There are several volunteer/paid on call depts. around Minneapolis that do a heck of a job. Some people aren't willing to admit it, but that's their problem. Don't stereotype.

    Anyway, if Minneapolis can staff positions with competent volunteers/paid on call and if they will help ensure the safety of other firefighters and citizens, then I'm all for it. I'm loyal to public safety and not stereotype's.

    (For those asking for a link to the story, I can't provide that. It was on the local news. I heard it on Kare11).

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    • #17
      Fyredup,
      You don't agree that a volunteer directly taking the position of a carreer firefighter in this case is a SCAB?????????? You my friend need to look at your pay check and see if it's that important to you and your family.

      I am not in the trades part time. I'm a mortgage broker. Which is not a conflict of interest to firefighting or has adverse health effects. Anyone can be a mortgage broker and it's not taking anyone's job away.

      I do agree with you - that Union brother firefighters should not scab as a trades profesional.

      No I don't think all volunteers are scabs - just the carreer ones!
      IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

      Comment


      • #18
        KeithA8 there is a specifc and generic part to this case.

        Specifically, I am a paid firefighter and of course I do not want to see my job or any other career firefighter's job replaced by either a P.O.C. or volunteer firefighter or for that matter an intern from the local college.

        Generically, the IAFF has a major thing about volunteers. The mission is to replace them with paid firefighters. That is totally unreal in many circumstances. The village that I live in has a population of just under 700 people. The FD's budget for the year is $36,600. How many full timers can they afford? You tell me. When and if they ever start to hire full timers I will step aside. Until that day occurs I will continue to volunteer and serve my home community.

        At least we do agree on the idea that if someone is calling people scabs they best not be one themselves, even if it isn't a fire service related job.

        FyredUp
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment


        • #19
          I'm not on Minneapolis, but if someones house was on fire and vollies provided the manpower to help save a family, why fight to keep them from staffing? What if a terrorist decides to hit the city.

          The fact is, Minneapolis can not support having the 42 firefighters they need at this time. If vollies help protect the city and families, then that's fine by me. The MFD Chief is going to fight for the full-timers back as soon as the funds are there. In the meantime, instead of fighting for full-time ff's that MFD is simply not going to get, then it's ignorant to leave those positions empty and risk lives. One can find another source of income, it's harder to replace a family or fellow firefighter.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Jedimike007
            The fact is, Minneapolis can not support having the 42 firefighters they need at this time. If vollies help protect the city and families, then that's fine by me. The MFD Chief is going to fight for the full-timers back as soon as the funds are there.
            If the city thinks it can get by staffing a company with three career firefighters and a volunteer... It won't be long until they try to staff companies with two career FFs and two volunteers. City government does not care about the fire department until something terrible happens. And even in cities where something bad does happen (NYC), FDs are still held hostage in budget debates.

            If you allow city governemnt an inch, they'll take three miles.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jedimike007
              I'm not on Minneapolis, but if someones house was on fire and vollies provided the manpower to help save a family, why fight to keep them from staffing? What if a terrorist decides to hit the city.

              The fact is, Minneapolis can not support having the 42 firefighters they need at this time. If vollies help protect the city and families, then that's fine by me. The MFD Chief is going to fight for the full-timers back as soon as the funds are there. In the meantime, instead of fighting for full-time ff's that MFD is simply not going to get, then it's ignorant to leave those positions empty and risk lives. One can find another source of income, it's harder to replace a family or fellow firefighter.
              And a general contractor is building a project but can only afford six laborers when he needs ten. He hires four scab laborers at significantly less per hour and no benefits to bring himself up to ten. After all, he NEEDS ten to complete the job. So the end justifies the means, right?

              Riddle me this...how long will it take for the GC to figure out he can hire all ten at scab wages and save alot of money?

              The State rests.
              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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              • #22
                It works in Bloomington Minnesota so why wouldn't it work In Minneapolis?? Bloomington is a total vollie department I also think they have a ISO rating of 1 or 2. Which is awsome for a vollie department!!!!!
                nrz2334
                Just my view

                I would rather push my Seagrave than drive your Pierce!!

                TNT Rescue The Best!!!!!!!

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                • #23
                  ON TOP OF MY SOAPBOX

                  HELLO!!!! It doesn't matter if Bloomington does it, if Apple Valley, Edina,Inver Grove Heights,Brooklyn Park, Mendota Heights or any other town in Minnesota does it! The point is that 42 firefighters may lose their paying jobs and then 42 other schlubs come in and take them for squat. What kind of message would that send to you if you were on the recieving end of the layoff notice? George hit it on the head with the carpenter analogy. Stop being clouded by the VOLS vs. IAFF crap and look at the impact this has on people losing their livelyhood.
                  And as far as I am concerned the "Quint Concept" is just a way to reduce two fully equipped and staffed companies into one comapny trying to do many functions with not enough manning. Sounds like something we have all lamented and fought over the years doesn't it? Just the opinions of a ****ed off Minnesota transplant...ME
                  STUMBLING OFF THE SOAPBOX AND MOST LIKELY SPRAINING MY ANKLES
                  Last edited by FiRsqDvr45; 07-05-2003, 08:40 PM.
                  Proud to be an American, Union Firefighter!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    So unless you can say you DON'T work a part-time gig let's not toss the word scab around.
                    I DON"T WORK A PART TIME GIG...SCAB

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      E229LT...

                      Thanks for your insight.

                      By the way you must spend a lot of time on the job calling the brothers scabs in the FDNY since it is well known many of them volunteer where they live.

                      A scab is someone taking someone elses job. It makes no difference whether that job is a union firefighting job or a job in the trades. In my community of 700 there is not a paid firefighting job to be taken. And, as I stated previously if they ever do get paid people I will step aside.

                      So you can call me a scab if you choose and truly I hope it makes you feel better about yourself because in this circumstance it has no bearing on what I will do.

                      To everyone else...

                      I never said I agreed with replacing paid union firefighters with P.O.C., or vollies, or college students. Believe it or not there is a major difference between that concept and being a volly on my off days in my small rural village with no plans to ever, at least at this point, of having paid personnel. I find the throwing around of the word scab in many cases to be hypocritical. Especially when any other union would call that same person a scab for stealing a job from their union brothers.

                      FyredUp
                      Last edited by FyredUp; 07-06-2003, 12:11 AM.
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nrz2334
                        It works in Bloomington Minnesota so why wouldn't it work In Minneapolis?? Bloomington is a total vollie department I also think they have a ISO rating of 1 or 2. Which is awsome for a vollie department!!!!!
                        Your profile says you are an electrician. If I volunteered to come do your job for free and your boss fired you... Would you still support this idea of vollies replacing professionals?
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I'm not someone who holds to a view when shown to be wrong. I've read a lot of good points, I'm still confused on how everyone defines scab, I don't think it's the same and it's causing confusion. Anyhow, I see how full timers would be ticked off at a vollie taking their job, and how the city would take advantage of something like this. But, what other realistic options are there? 42 firefighters is extreme.

                          As far as I'm aware, St. Paul didn't lose any ff's (or very very few). I think a few guys took early retirement, and some officers were demoted. Anyone know more about that?

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                          • #28
                            FyredUp,

                            I owe you an apology. I wasn't calling you a Scab, or anyone else. I was merely "throwing the word around" because I don't work a side job.
                            As I so often do, I tried to inject a little humor and ended up crapping in someones cornflakes.

                            Disclaimer: I was a Volly for 27 years

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I know a lot of firefighters that work in "the trades" as a second job. They are electricians, carpenters, plumbers, equipment operators, etc. They are self employed.

                              Where does one find unionized tradesmen?

                              99.9% of the time, they are working large construction projects, building highways, office buildings, municipal buildings, schools, etc.

                              Where do most Jakes who work a trade do for the outside work?

                              Home renovation projects, doing small jobs... the ones that the larger construction firms that hire unionized labor wouldn't even lift a finger to dial the phone to make an appointment to do an estimate for!

                              I did a search of Bloomington, MN FD.

                              They are not a class 1 FD...their ISO rating is 3.
                              They only do fire calls, no ems.
                              They responded to 461 fire calls in the two year period from 1999 to 2000.

                              Poeple seem to forget that what works for one community might not work for another...the Fire Service is not "one size fits all"...
                              Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 07-06-2003, 10:28 AM.
                              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                My crystal ball

                                There will be no volunteers filling the ranks of the MFD. Minnesota is a "worker friendly" state, thus making this a highly unlikely prospect. To my Union Brothers and Sisters out there, I really could give two hoots if you volunteer or not. I am however, growing weary of many of you who seem to think "the Big Bad IAFF" is somehow wrong for working to end the practice of "two hatting". If you put as much effort into making YOUR Local Union stronger as some of you do trying to fight it because your volunteer department is more important, I WOULD GLADLY pay extra per capita to see you outside looking in. This is not directed at anyone in particular in these forums...Just one mans opinion...
                                IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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