Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Contract Prohibits Hartford Firefighters From Volunteering!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Are you kidding me? How many guys are members of two PAID departments? Please, there has to be a better argument than that! And I agree with you on the pension issue.
    George I am not kidding you. I can think of at least 30 people off the top of my head who work two paid departments. One of which works two full time. There are hundreds of these people throughout the Chicago metropolitan area.

    Around here part time paid fire departments are not at all uncommon. Many communities in the suburbs of Chicago have started to pay people in order to insure 24 hour station staffing. Some pay as much as $15-$20 per hour.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

    Comment


    • #62
      Suppose for a minute, that any private employer, as part of an agreement for hiring you....dictated that you could not volunteer as a firefighter...citing fears of decreased productivity...or loss of services.
      This happens all the time. People are forbidden from engaging in all sorts of activities. If you sign a personal contract, or are subject to the terms of a CBA you may be forbidden from a variety of activity.

      Example. The bonde guy from NYPD blue, Mark-Paul Gosselaar, loves to ride dirtbikes. His contract with ABC says he cannot.

      Many professional athletes are prohibited from participating in a wide variety of activities which their team owners consider too great a risk.

      This is not unique to the fire service. Sometimes you have to make a choice.
      "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

      IACOJ

      Comment


      • #63
        First off, as has been said - many times, it is a negotiated contract. Both sides agreed to it, and the Union had to ratify it, which means a MAJORITY of the members endorsed the deal. Since most negotiating committees are elected, or appointed by elected officials, I find it hard to believe the membership wasn't represented.

        Secondly, there is an inherent investment to each firefighter that is hired. Medical screening, equipment and training. The City, any City, has a vested interest in the well being of it's employees. Yes, and employee could get hurt riding a bike, flossing his teeth, whatever. But since we all agree this is one of the most dangerous jobs (job in the sense of work, not pay) in the world, wouldn't ya think there is a greater risk of injury to a firefighter that volunteers in his off time? And since I think there is a greater chance, then I can see the concern of the cities "investment" and trying to ensure its there when they need it. That doesn't include other expenses for sick time, overtime, etc etc, when the Firefighter goes out injured.

        It would be interesting to see who proposed the idea. If the City did, then I would imagine their reasons are to protect their interest. If the union did, then it is more of the Res. 43 kinda stuff.

        Bottom line is all kinds of crazy stuff gets brought up in contact negotiations, but the isn't a gun to anyone's head to agree to it.

        Either way, while I understand the concern of area Departments, are the Union guys who volunteer bitching? The other Departments really have nothing to say about it, just like all of us don't either....since, as i first said, it is a negotiated deal, and both sides agreed to it.
        Last edited by hfd66truck; 07-02-2003, 02:15 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Duffman
          This happens all the time. People are forbidden from engaging in all sorts of activities. If you sign a personal contract, or are subject to the terms of a CBA you may be forbidden from a variety of activity.

          Example. The bonde guy from NYPD blue, Mark-Paul Gosselaar, loves to ride dirtbikes. His contract with ABC says he cannot.

          Many professional athletes are prohibited from participating in a wide variety of activities which their team owners consider too great a risk.
          There is a huge difference between ABC not allowing Zack Morris to ride his dirtbike and not allowing someone, who already has an incredible amount of knowledge and expertise on a certain topic, to use that knowledge for the greater good of society.

          I guess Sammy Sosa should be banned from helping out with his son's baseball team, or a charity softball tournament. No more Pro-Am golf tournaments for the PGA players. Say goodbye to benefit concerts put on by musicians.

          You're right ... sometimes you have to make choices. I'd love to see a paid fireman choose to watch his neighbor's house burn and not do anything to help out.

          Stay Safe

          Comment


          • #65
            But since we all agree this is one of the most dangerous jobs (job in the sense of work, not pay) in the world, wouldn't ya think there is a greater risk of injury to a firefighter that volunteers in his off time?
            There is no greater risk than a FF who performs roofing on his off days. The chances of him falling off a roof 200 times per year are greater than getting hurt at one of the two working fires some vol depts. per year.

            It is difficult to argue this one away. It is more intellectually honest to just call this what it is. We don't want the brothers to scab the job. That's honest. don't try to cloak it in anything else.
            PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Duffman


              George I am not kidding you. I can think of at least 30 people off the top of my head who work two paid departments. One of which works two full time. There are hundreds of these people throughout the Chicago metropolitan area.

              Around here part time paid fire departments are not at all uncommon. Many communities in the suburbs of Chicago have started to pay people in order to insure 24 hour station staffing. Some pay as much as $15-$20 per hour.
              In the NE, this is almost impossible. Hell, it is damn near impossible to get on ONE paid department. I guarantee you that this was no consideration in Hartford.
              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

              Comment


              • #67
                It is difficult to argue this one away. It is more intellectually honest to just call this what it is. We don't want the brothers to scab the job. That's honest. don't try to cloak it in anything else.
                Why do people keep avoiding the facts? This was put in the contract by the employer, not the union.
                "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

                IACOJ

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Duffman


                  Why do people keep avoiding the facts? This was put in the contract by the employer, not the union.
                  But who brought it up first? I have some difficulty beliving that the town actually has any problems with its firefighters volunteering, not enough to make it an issue anyway. Not without restricting them from other activities.

                  I could see the union, with its anti-volunteer atttude, figuring that if they have to make a certain number of concessions why not offer this one up. They get a double whammy, they get to make the employeer think they are actually making a concession and hurt volunteer departments a little bit as well. For the union to offer this first would be a no-loose situation.

                  I would love to know who brought the subject up first, I would put my money on it being someone connected with the union.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Duff, c'mon. I am dealing with negotiations for our CBA right now. Nothing gets put into the contract and stays without agreement. If it's in there, it's in there because the Union agreed to it. And the Union is IAFF. And if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by PAVolunteer



                      You're right ... sometimes you have to make choices. I'd love to see a paid fireman choose to watch his neighbor's house burn and not do anything to help out.

                      Stay Safe
                      a Career Firefighter can support his local VFD...

                      He/she can operate a canteen for rehab in cold and hot weather ops.

                      He/she donate money to hisd local VFD.

                      He/she can go to bat dfor them in front of the Town council when funding is necessary to purchase new gear, rigs, TIC's etc. etc.

                      He/she can run for town council to inusre the the VFD's interests are represented!

                      And in an emergency...with people trapped, I am sure that the career firefighter would do the right thing!

                      Just my 3 cents worth...Captains have to pay a little more!
                      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


                        a Career Firefighter can support his local VFD...

                        He/she can operate a canteen for rehab in cold and hot weather ops.
                        You should see what one of my local union departments think about the local volunteer canteen (that offers services to departments far and wide, and is requested by many other union departments to all their fires...)


                        Question I've been wanting to pose (delicately) to the union brothers.

                        Would you agree to a presumptive heart/lung benefit that came hand-in-hand with Massachusetts-style tobacco ban, all or nothing?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Would you agree to a presumptive heart/lung benefit that came hand-in-hand with Massachusetts-style tobacco ban, all or nothing?
                          I have 5 years in teh Massachusetts system and I personally agree with it. I don't smoke, have no desire to smoke. Research shows that ANY use of tobacco products contributes to hypertension, is a HUGE risk factor for strokes, elevates heart rates, causes a variety of cancers, etc... What I do not like is that they allowed for the grandfathering of previously hired personnel. HELLO? I couldn't care less if you've been on teh job for 30 years, you're still covered under the same law, so what, the carcinogens are not going to have an effect on you because you have been there for 30 years? I am not a fan of grandfathering, it just leads to problems down the road. You are still covered by the same pension system and laws so you should be bound by the same rules.

                          This law also effects chewing tobacco and snuff as well as cigarettes and cigars. This law went into effect in 1988 (November I believe) and everyone hired since has been bound by the no tobacco use clauses. These guys can still smoke at the station adn contribute second hand smoke to the other guys working so what the Hell good is it to allow them to smoke if I still get cancer from the guys who were grandfathered?

                          In the past I have been a call firefighter while I worked as a career firefighter. Some didn't like it, most didn't care. I caught more fires, more traumas, more medicals on my call department than I did on my career department. Just beacuse you are in a call department means nothing. That being said, I worked with more career guys who were injured on their days off at their plumbing, roofing, electrical, trucking, or whatever jobs and this did bother me.
                          "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                          The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                          "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                          "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                          www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Nothing gets put into the contract and stays without agreement. If it's in there, it's in there because the Union agreed to it.
                            George, c'mon. Haven't you ever been to arbitration? Ever lost at arbitration? Of course things get put in contracts without agreement. I understand that that does not appear to be the case here. They clearly agreed.





                            Would you agree to a presumptive heart/lung benefit that came hand-in-hand with Massachusetts-style tobacco ban, all or nothing?
                            CBuff. I would have no problem with a law like they have in Mass. I don't smoke.
                            "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

                            IACOJ

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
                              [B]a Career Firefighter can support his local VFD...

                              He/she can operate a canteen for rehab in cold and hot weather ops.

                              He/she donate money to hisd local VFD.

                              He/she can go to bat dfor them in front of the Town council when funding is necessary to purchase new gear, rigs, TIC's etc. etc.

                              He/she can run for town council to inusre the the VFD's interests are represented!

                              And in an emergency...with people trapped, I am sure that the career firefighter would do the right thing!
                              Good point ... and hopefully they will.

                              Stay Safe

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                George, c'mon. Haven't you ever been to arbitration? Ever lost at arbitration? Of course things get put in contracts without agreement. I understand that that does not appear to be the case here. They clearly agreed.
                                Of course I have been to arbitration. But this is only posted to muddy the waters. S you pointed out, there was no arbitration here. This was not forced down their throats. They were not held hostage. I am certain that the Hartfoed local is now the sweetheart local of the IAFF. I am certain they will now be used as a model.
                                PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X