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Volunteer Chief suspended for drinking

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  • #46
    HOW MANY DRINKS MAKE DRIVING UNSAFE?
    1 drink = 12 ounces of beer = 5 ounces of wine = 1 1/2 ounces of hard liquor

    Drinks: 1 2 3 4 5
    100 pounds 43 87 130 174 217
    125 pounds 34 69 103 139 173
    150 pounds 29 58 87 116 145
    175 pounds 25 50 75 100 125
    200 pounds 22 43 65 87 108
    225 pounds 19 39 58 78 97
    250 pounds 17 35 52 70 87


    ORANGE NUMERALS INDICATE CANDIDATES FOR A 24 HOUR SUSPENSION.

    RED NUMERALS INDICATE CANDIDATES FOR IMPAIRED DRIVING CHARGES.

    There is no quick fix to sober up if you have been drinking, black coffee, walks, taking a quick nap, they are all myths, nothing but time will get you sober again. For each hour that passes after you have stopped drinking the blood alcohol level should drop by 15 mg% as your body eliminates the alcohol.


    I found this table in my search so maybe it will give some sort of understanding as to how alcohol affects different individuals. I'm still looking for information as to whether or not a 24 hour suspension has to be reported.

    Sorry I couldn't get the number of drinks to line up over the corresponding column but you get the idea.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

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    • #47
      I've met Chief Beaton probably half a dozen times or so.

      I consider myself pretty average for height and weight, and he had what looked to be, maybe, 1-2 inches and probably 100 pounds, on me.
      "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

      Comment


      • #48
        Wiseguy, you are correct (as a company policy) to adivse your employer of any suspensions.... but that is for you alone to discuss with whomever you wish. It is a contravention of the Privacy Act for another individual to speak of events/actions or conversations that were witnessed, where the person was not an actual party to to said events etc...

        In otherwords, if I saw you pulled over by the cops, figured out the reason for the stop, and then reported it to your boss, I am in contravention of the Act, because I am not a party to those events. And even is I was, it's still not really my place to go to your boss. That is for you to do.

        Sssooooo methinks that someone else leaked this to the Mayor first, because she called to Chief Beaton regarding this.
        Mayor Karen Watson suspended Beaton from his position on Saturday afternoon after informing council members by phone.
        I still would like to know: who told her?????
        If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

        "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

        "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

        Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

        impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

        IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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        • #49
          Drinking while responding has NOTHING to do with this thread. This man was in a POV, on his OWN time. He was NOT behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle, and since I'm sure that NONE of us are mindreaders we will never know if he would have gotten behind the wheel of one if opportunity may have arose. Don't turn this thread into an argument of drinking and responding vs not ..... keep it to the topic at hand which is whether or not he should have been stripped of his position or not.
          To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

          IACOJ-WOT proud

          GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TrojanHorse
            I would be interested to know how many accidents or problems have been caused because someone was drinking while responding. Also would like to know how that compares to the total number of problems. I wonder if the drinking is really as big a problem as some would like us to think or is it just a perception?
            Right ... because as long as it only happens every once in a while, it's okay.

            This was, by far, the most ignorant post I have ever read on here.

            Does this make it too much of a problem, or just because it was only one life, is it okay???
            Attached Files

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            • #51
              Warning:Rant Mode comeing on!!!!!

              I moved my post to the Wyoming tradgedy thread as after re reading it I thought it better over there.

              Thanks
              DFD
              Last edited by dfdex1; 06-28-2003, 02:14 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                PA,

                I don't know about everyone else. But to me that post put an end to the fwohole drinking and responding arguement.

                I know this thread isn't about that, but I thought it was an extremly powerful post.
                Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

                Comment


                • #53
                  Jesse,

                  I just read your post on the other thread and I'm going to respond to a couple of comments that you made. I do not by any means condone drinking and responding, drinking and driving and for the most part I don't agree with drinking IN the firehall (what some people need to understand is that in SMALL communities such as ours and Metchosin the fire halls double as community centers because there are no other places. However, LIKE everything else there is a time and a place and it's up to US to police ourselves and be responsible and mature about our actions.) Again, the fact of the matter here is NOT the alcohol in the fire hall, but the actions preceeding the suspension of Chief Beaton. He was NOT responding, he had a couple at the hall AFTER practice (I'm not arguing that), he was driving a POV when he was pulled over. Now in order to fully understand what's gone on here one would have to be familiar with the local politics and the goings on of the last election. It's really easy to sit back and make a judgement call without having all the facts, I've been guilty of that myself. Regarding alcohol in the fire hall that also doubles as a community center, well given our location I'd far rather be able to have a couple within walking distance to my home than to have to drive 30 kms and then worry about how to get home. I wouldn't respond after drinking and I'm confident that no one else on my department would respond after imbibing either. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it all boils down to SELF REGULATION, maturity and responsiblity levels. Since I've also been to Metchosin, it's similar to us in it's demographics, a little bigger but you get the point. I can see this being an argument IF he had responded AFTER drinking, but he didn't. Let's keep our perspective here. In reality as it's been said before, there's a far greater risk of having someone respond (within a volly dept) after drinking at home in the backyard than if they were at the community part of the hall.
                  Last edited by PFire23; 06-28-2003, 11:58 AM.
                  To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

                  IACOJ-WOT proud

                  GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    If we want to play the game of what if......

                    What if a call had come in while he was sitting at the hall having a few.....would he have responded?
                    IACOJ

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      That's the whole point Lady, we can what if this to death but the fact remains that UNTIL that what if happens we don't know and cannot base a judgement on a "what if". Yes there are stupid STUPID irresponsible people in this world, and a lot of those people hold positions of power, but not ALL people fall into that category. So stereotyping someone just because they are volunteer at a hall that just HAPPENS to have a licensed establishment on it's premises is wrong. The whole point of this thread was the Chief's suspension based on a 24 hour roadside suspension, issued by an officer who said that he did not THINK the chief was impaired, while on his OWN time in a POV, and whether or not the suspension of the Chief was a justifiable action on the part of the mayor and just how she received the information on something that usually does not have to be disclosed.

                      As for the "what if" he would have responded IF a call had come in, I'd like to hope that he wouldn't have.
                      Last edited by PFire23; 06-28-2003, 02:03 PM.
                      To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

                      IACOJ-WOT proud

                      GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        PFire23,

                        I beg to differ on makeing judgments on "what ifs". Case in point- "What if" Hitler/Hirohito had the "Bomb" before the US,there is no doubt in my mind they would have used it.
                        I personally question the details/leagality of his suspenion my self and I do not think that "what ifs" should and can be used as reason for suspenion. But I do not have a doubt in my mind for one second that "what if" the "big one" like a tanker rollover,plane crash or other massive fire happend that he would not pour himself into his car and respond-----even worse take command of the scene. I am thankful that "what if" didnt happen. I think that the department should adderess these "what ifs" before they become "what happend" and we needlessly lose another firefighter or civillian.

                        -dfd
                        Last edited by dfdex1; 06-28-2003, 03:40 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          In my opinion alcohol at the firehall (volunteer department that doubles as a community hall) has absolutely nothing to do with responding while drinking. Someone posted a picture of Anndee Huber, while I agree that the loss of her life was a needless waste, the man who drove her to her death did NOT imbibe at the hall, he had his drinks elsewhere. So instead of the outcry toward halls that do house alcohol somewhere on their premise lets be realistic, the real threat is not from WHERE the alcohol is, but the lack of self regulation by a few individuals. Alcohol is legal and can be bought and drank damn near anywhere. The question is knowing when you can no longer respond. It's called being responsible and professional. There are always going to be those who don't know their own limits, or don't care and will go when the tones drop, but let's face it those people can and will obtain their alcohol from places other than the hall. Realistically, WHEN we had alcohol in our hall we were all there and we all saw how much each other was drinking. No one had any qualms about saying they would not be responding should the tones drop, nor did we have an issue with looking at someone else and saying "hey man, you aren't responding tonight". We also knew that by having more than 2 (for myself) then you were sitting out, so if you didn't want to sit out you limited yourself and had something non alcoholic. Quite frankly, my concern lies not with anyone who drinks in the community area of the hall, but with someone who has been lazing in the sun, mowing the lawn, working on their car etc all day, hoisting a few in the hot sun and not realizing just how many they've had and showing up. At least sitting across the room from someone at the hall, I KNOW what their intake has been.
                          To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

                          IACOJ-WOT proud

                          GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Here's a math question.

                            You have ten dollars to spend. At the bar downtown, beer is two dollars a can. How many cans will you get for ten dollars? Answer: five.
                            You go to the fire station with the same ten dollars. At the fire station, beer is one dollar a can. How many cans will you get for ten dollars? Answer: ten.
                            You go to the bar and you have no money. Will they let you drink for nothing? Answer: no.
                            You go to the fire station and you have no money. Will they let you drink for nothing? Answer: yes. You just put an IOU in the till.
                            It's just too damned easy to drink at the fire station and respond. Why? Because we all know that being at the fire station at the time of the call will improve your response time. So whether you have been drinking or not, you will get on the rig, in the rig or behind the wheel of the rig, because you are there and can do it faster than those who are not.
                            You can argue this into a reality series, but it isn't going to stop people from drinking at home, at the bar, in the car or at the fire station and responding to calls until penalties are toughened and we as a group of firefighters take control of the problem. Whether it's Canada, England, New Zealand or anywhere here in the United States, it will never change unless WE change it. Take it back to your fire stations. That seems to be where everything gets started.
                            CR
                            Visit www.iacoj.com
                            Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                            RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I have a some questions for dfdex. Are you a member of the dept in question? Are you a personal aquaintance of the Chief in question? If your answer is yes then you may have the right to make comments like "There is no doubt in my mind he would pour himself into his car and respond. If as I believe the answer is no then shut up and @#$% off. YOU DO NOT have the right to assume any action by anybody. Have I had too many drinks and driven? Damn straight. I'm 46. Used to be almost a badge of honour to get picked up for impaired. Never got caught, never had an accident or caused one. Just goes to show anyone can get lucky. Do I do it today? No. I grew up. But just for arguments sake, if I get stroked for DUI (or being partly pregnant .05-.079) in my own vehicle, on my own time who are you to say that I would have responded to the hall? 1 drink, I'll respond but not drive apparatus, 2 respond but not leave the hall, 3 drinks and I don't respond. 4 and I shut my pager off. Then the temptation that may be caused by impaired judgement is eliminated.
                              Now here is the scenario that seems to have been overlooked. Cop observes vehicle being driven in a manner other than the norm. Pulls it over. Tags expired, no registration, driver under the influence. Jeez its the Fire Chief. Very small community. "Been drinking?" "Yep" "Tell you what, you just park it here and I'll give you a lift home. If I don't make you blow, I don't know that you are impaired. I'll give you a 24hr Suspension that won't show on your record, and you can pick up your license tommorrow." "Geez thanks man I really appreciate that. It's a deal"
                              Call it what you like, professional courtesy, good ol boys network, it happens every day.
                              Should he be suspended indefinitely? NO. Maybe there is much more to this than meets the eye. The proverbial straw. But I think that the mayor has picked the wrong reason. Furthermore, in my province, the mayor couldn't do this without a special meeting of council. By the time this got put together, the suspension would be over and the meeting would be pointless.
                              Personal vendettas are seldom well-reasoned or defensible. Defeated council members should be treated like the rattlesnakes they usually are. Damn few good councillorsa are defeated in elections, they retire or die. No-one likes to be told by the majority of people in their district that they are doing a poor job.
                              I'll quit for now.
                              This is of course only my humble opinion, but then again, its likely the only one that matters.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                NO VOLY should ever drink ALCOHOL only the payed FF know when they are off duty. If a payed FF drinks a beer he should only WALK home or take a bus.
                                Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

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