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The Siamese Broke...Now What???

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  • The Siamese Broke...Now What???

    You, as the ECC/MPO have dropped your crew off at a highrise fire. A standpipe operation will now begin. They have started up the stairs with their 2 1/2" rollups and solid bore nozzle.
    As you bring a supply line to the lone standpipe siamese you find it has been broken off and water is slowly pouring from the pipe inside the wall.

    How do you supply the standpipe? Will you need special fittings/tools? Is the system servicable? What precautions should be taken once the system is supplied?

  • #2
    O.K. - not having any sprinklerd buildings in our first due & very very few in our second due (doncha love being rural ??) I'll admit that my standpipe system knowledge is a bit lacking but I'll take a shot at it anyway.

    I thought that by code there was supposed to be a shut off valve between the intake (Siamese) and the rest of the system. This being the case - I'd close that valve, connect to the first floor standpipe outlet (with the help of my trusty adapter fittings box) and then pump the standpipe as before.

    O.K. folks - let the education begin - whad I do wrong ??

    Addendum - I would most likely station someone at the afore mentioned shut off valve so it is not inadvertently opened and begin dumping water to the exterior and causing a loss of flow to the hose team
    Last edited by N2DFire; 06-13-2003, 12:28 PM.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    • #3
      I agree with N2D's assessment. If there was no valve, have one of the aerials set up an "exterior" standpipe connection by running a supply line up the aerial and tie the highrise packs into that. Of course, Artie didn't tell us what floor the fire was on.... how evil!
      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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      • #4
        Shot in the dark, but if the pipes smsll enough-
        Im gonna hack away enough wall to acess it- then
        drag out the old Elkhart hose jacket and clamp it.
        That failing ---- I would take my smooth bore tip
        drive it in the pipe--- reattach the shutoff bail
        and lash it on best I could. I would assign someone
        to monitor it. Risky--- but---Now if you had a ariel
        Gonzos on the right track.
        ?

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        • #5
          I would assume that the fire is above the first floor since you not useing regualr handlines from the trucks and have resorted to hi-rise packs.
          I would run two 2.5" lines up to the first floor stand pipe conncection and attach a siamese to the stand pipes 2.5" connection and pump the truck to the hilt to over come the pressure reducers mounted in the stand pipe system. The clapper valve in the system near the bottom will close tight.

          Just and idea let me know if it works or has been done before im just guessing at this.

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          • #6
            Gonzo, I still think that would work here. Our most common high-rise is a 9 story building. So we could take our aerial( 1 of 4 ) and run the hoses off of that. But if the building ever burned, we could put it out just from the master streams on the aerials.
            No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

            IACOJ 2003

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            • #7
              1) A control valve is not permitted by code to be located between the siamese and the system. If it's there anyway, close it.

              2) A slow leak flowing from inside the pipe (as opposed to a leak from a coupling or pipe joint) indicates a leaking check valve. The check valve is required to be located between the siamese and the system. Ignore the leak. Connect to the first floor standpipe outlet. If the system is a manual wet system, pump the outlet (the pressure may be sufficient to close the check valve and stop the leak). If it is an automatic wet system, let the fire pump do the work unless sufficient pressure cannot be maintained - in which case, pump it. If it is a dry system and there is a leak, something is wrong. Make sure the liquid is water and not a flammable liquid (sabotage).

              3) There are other control valves required in the standpipe piping. It may be necessary to close one or more of them and pump into the standpipe hose outlet.

              4) Preplanning is essential so that you know the location of all valves and devices. See NFPA 1620.

              Jim Feld

              Comment


              • #8
                Nice job dfdex1, I think you are on the right track. Personally I hate pressure reducers on standpipes. I prefer to let the ECC determine the pressure I need.

                Don't forget to bring in the necessary appliances (double male) to connect to the 1st floor discharge.
                "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

                IACOJ

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                • #9
                  A couple of thoughts here, is the standpipe pre-plumbed and supplied by the bldg pump? If so then you may not need to supply the standpipe but rather be prepared to supply it if the pump goes down. This is the way most of our are set up down in FLA. In that case, yes, still catch it on the first and or second floors and be prepared to supply that. Now here's another deal, what if you go to hook up to the siamese and the fdc is pressurized!, You can tell by the water-curtain effect when you try to remove the cap, DO NOT remove it. We've had both of these things happen to us recently. Nice thread though.

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