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  • #16
    HEY GEORGE COME ON DOWN NO ONE IS LISTENING ANY MORE
    don,t you go where those huskies go and don,t you eat no yellow snow

    Comment


    • #17
      [quote]Originally posted by Hook-n-Can:
      George Wendt.....didn't you play Norm on Cheers several years ago? Guess the acting biz wasn't too good so your a C.F.I now. Congrats on the career move.

      Your not fighting another anti-cop loser....your fighting your own narrow mindedness. Just because someone doesn't agree with the policing strategies in Anytown, USA doesn't mean people are anti-cop. Not everyone shares your everyone hates cops attitued.

      Perhaps there is a communication breakdown at the top of both agencies as you suggested. I'd say that is exactly what is going on. However, to answer your question as to why shouldn't the Police cancel the Fire Department??? BECAUSE THEY'RE POLICE OFFICERS, NOT FIREFIGHTERS. Sure, if the Officer wants to give a report to the incoming units, or maybe even advise to respond at a reduced rate, fine. How much fire training was offered at the Police Academy?

      It's obvious from some of the other posts here that the battle of the badges lies within other communities as well. Communication at the top is key.

      Lighten up George....I guess since Cheers went off the air the free beer dried up.




      Couple of thoughts here.

      1. I only label people who believe that cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time as anti-cop. I do that when people criticize an officer for doing his job.

      2. I have been a fire fighter for 26 years. I have been a law enforcement officer for 18 years. I come from a family of fire fighters. There is no anti-ff bias here. There is harsh, stark reality with comments and judgement based on facts and experience.

      3. "Call you off" means slow you down not cancel. I apologize for the confusion in vernacular. There is no reason why you should not heed another public safety professional's size up of the situation.

      4. Can somebody honestly say (and back it up) that the majority of police officers have bad attitudes and abuse FF? Because that is what most of you sound like.

      5. Can somebody honest;y tell me that when there is a conflict between the FD and the PD that it is always the PD's fault? Because that is what most of you sound like.

      6. When cops are wrong, I say it. Look at the other thread going on here. I clearly said the cop was wrong. When the cops in MA dressed like FF to go on a raid I clearly said they were wrong.

      7. If I had the $ the other George Wendt had, close to the last thing I would be doing is arguing on an Internet BB.
      PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

      Comment


      • #18
        [quote]Originally posted by Hook-n-Can:
        George Wendt.....didn't you play Norm on Cheers several years ago? Guess the acting biz wasn't too good so your a C.F.I now. Congrats on the career move.

        Your not fighting another anti-cop loser....your fighting your own narrow mindedness. Just because someone doesn't agree with the policing strategies in Anytown, USA doesn't mean people are anti-cop. Not everyone shares your everyone hates cops attitued.

        Perhaps there is a communication breakdown at the top of both agencies as you suggested. I'd say that is exactly what is going on. However, to answer your question as to why shouldn't the Police cancel the Fire Department??? BECAUSE THEY'RE POLICE OFFICERS, NOT FIREFIGHTERS. Sure, if the Officer wants to give a report to the incoming units, or maybe even advise to respond at a reduced rate, fine. How much fire training was offered at the Police Academy?

        It's obvious from some of the other posts here that the battle of the badges lies within other communities as well. Communication at the top is key.

        Lighten up George....I guess since Cheers went off the air the free beer dried up.




        Couple of thoughts here.

        1. I only label people who believe that cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time as anti-cop. I do that when people criticize an officer for doing his job.

        2. I have been a fire fighter for 26 years. I have been a law enforcement officer for 18 years. I come from a family of fire fighters. There is no anti-ff bias here. There is harsh, stark reality with comments and judgement based on facts and experience.

        3. "Call you off" means slow you down not cancel. I apologize for the confusion in vernacular. There is no reason why you should not heed another public safety professional's size up of the situation.

        4. Can somebody honestly say (and back it up) that the majority of police officers have bad attitudes and abuse FF? Because that is what most of you sound like.

        5. Can somebody honest;y tell me that when there is a conflict between the FD and the PD that it is always the PD's fault? Because that is what most of you sound like.

        6. When cops are wrong, I say it. Look at the other thread going on here. I clearly said the cop was wrong. When the cops in MA dressed like FF to go on a raid I clearly said they were wrong.

        7. If I had the $ the other George Wendt had, close to the last thing I would be doing is arguing on an Internet BB.
        PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

        Comment


        • #19
          the problem is that the attitudes of police officers and firefighters have different attitudes because of their jobs. we don;t deal with criminals as much as police officers do. we figure most people are sick or injured or in peril dure to fire or otherwise. we help people. police officers take people to jail. people don;t like going to jail so they act a lot differently therefore giving the cops the attitudes that they have. they have to be in control and all that stuff. now I am not talking about every cop cause i have a lot of cop firends who are very laid back. but I think you see what I am saying. So they go to these calls and think that they have the authority to cancel us. they don;t you have to contnue and should treat there reports just the same as a civillian unless the police officer is a memeber of the FD and can be trusted to make the right decison. that's all i have to say

          Comment


          • #20
            thank GOD our PD and FD get along so well !!!!!!
            IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
            Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
            ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
            RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
            LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
            I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
            "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
            http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

            Comment


            • #21
              Fortunately, the Officer’s I work with are excellent Officer’s and yes, things do happen that are not so favorable on every call. I just try to keep an open mind and spend time with them to educate them the best I can and find it that it is well worth my while to share information with them of our actions and why and how things they do can effect victims or our opreations. We just might be lucky. (Their exception to every rule I know in particular the FDNY incident a couple of months ago and I understand what happened there and I stand by the FDNY Firefighter’s, and based on a few other experience’s I have had with law enforcement. It happens all over this country.) But what comes to mind is we all have a responsibility to help each other after all we are out to accomplish the same goal and that is to take care of the people we serve and do our job. Respectfully, they have theirs we have ours I just feel we need too work together the best we can. Slamming Officer’s isn’t a good thing nor is Officer’s slamming Firefighter’s it doesn’t accomplish a thing. After all we are all learning and I have worked with some over zealous Firefighter’s as I have Officer’s. What is really disturbing is when their are FDNY Firefighter’s right now digging out the FDNY Brother’s and Police Officer’s and these posts are popping up. I hope we haven’t forgotten already what has happen to our FDNY Brother’s and NYPD and to all of us American’s.

              GOD Bless FDNY and All of the lost Brother’s and their families.


              FTM, PTB, RFB

              Comment


              • #22
                First off, I'm so glad all our town departments get along so well. Our PD has cancelled us on some calls and often we back down to code 1 or just send a chief based on the pd's size-ups. But this is killing me what people are saying about "they aren't firefighters they can't cancel us" Lets think about it. We're not talking about Structure fires here but more like,

                1. The mva with no pi, it doesn't take a rocket sccientist to see there is nothing leaking, and they've been to enough of them to know
                2. Lines down, don't take a lineman and especially a fireman if no lines are actually down.
                3. The car fire which was just an overheated radiator, or a TT truck with hot brakes. again, no need for us EXPERTS"
                4. The MFA where the occupants readily admit to pulling it or setting it off accidently. Just send out a chief to reset it, no need for every wacker in pager land to risk more lives responding when nothing is wrong.

                It all comes down to common sense, our pd knows how we operate and we know how they operate. an officer is dispatched to every fire call if available and they work tremendously well with us. It wasn't always like that and all it really took was BOTH OF US to set aside our EGO's and work out problems. I suggest you all do the same. You won't be dissapointed, and your citizens will appreciate it, after all isn't that why we're here?


                -Nick

                Comment


                • #23
                  George,

                  I NEVER said that the cops were ALWAYS at fault. I am NOT anti-cop. And many of the problems COULD be solved by simply discussing the problems that both PD and FD face at a given type of incident.

                  As far Brother Hoot's post was concerned, I don't think there was enough information given to make a determination as to what the problems were, or to make any type of judgement as to who was at fault. Your experience as a police officer may give you the ability to make a thorough determination as to all of the problems and the solutions. I just don't see enough information to make a judgement.

                  All cops DO NOT have bad attitudes, A few DO!
                  Just like firefighters. This sometimes leads to a degree of unpleasantness on the scene.

                  What pi**ed me off was the automatic assumption that Hoot was an anti-cop "loser" based on his post. Not enough information given.

                  No hard feelings, OK??

                  Stay Safe

                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I only label people who believe that cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time as anti-cop. I do that when people criticize an officer for doing his job.

                    Correct me if I'm wrong....but who on this thread said all cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time? I think you did your "labeling" in this case on your own assumptions.


                    "Call you off" means slow you down not cancel. I apologize for the confusion in vernacular. There is no reason why you should not heed another public safety professional's size up of the situation.

                    I think the problem most of us are talking about here are the police officers who through their own definition of size up choose to cancel the F.D. all together. Giving the F.D. a report and advising to slow response/continue in is perfectly acceptable. We can use the info they're reporting for our benefit and use. However, When I'm in the cab, I'd prefer to size the situation up myself without relying on another "public safety professional's" version. I mean, after all, we're trained in a differant field than the P.D.

                    Can somebody honestly say (and back it up) that the majority of police officers have bad attitudes and abuse FF? Because that is what most of you sound like.

                    Again, who said that the majority of Cops have bad attitudes and abuse firefighters? You're making assumptions again. I'm sure most like me have friends at the P.D. but, hey, there are bad apples in every bunch, F.D. and P.D. and since this a firefighters forum there are more firefighters than cops here. Check a Cops forum, maybe their having a spirited discussion regarding firefighters there.

                    Can somebody honest;y tell me that when there is a conflict between the FD and the PD that it is always the PD's fault? Because that is what most of you sound like.

                    Most definately not. The case presented here sounds like there is terrible communication between the Police Department and the Fire Department. Here I go assuming, based on the information presented. All public safety departments must work hand in hand. Perhaps that for the sake of argument, the Chief of Police wants his Officers out being seen, presenting a positive image of his Department, yet his message was miscommunicated and the Officers on the Street think they need to do more when on a call. Like most, the two Chiefs here probably have no idea that there is dissension among the ranks regarding this subject.

                    George....don't think I'm trying to bash you here....just trying to play devils advocate a bit. I am sorry to hear that you aren't the "other" George. I wanted to tell all my buddies that I'd been sparring with Norm from Cheers.

                    Be Safe.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Can't we all just get along????!!!!

                      The bottom line is there are some A-hole police officers out there, and there are some A-hole FFs out there too. You CANNOT and WILL NOT always get along with everyone, but you CAN and SHOULD always try your best to make due with what you have. Every situation is different every time, just like every call is different every time. What is that saying? When life hands you lemons, make lemonade...sorry for the bad cliche, but honestly it fits.

                      So can we all be friends now?

                      [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: hctrouble25 ]

                      Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Brotherhoot, I don't have a problem with law enforcement showing up for a call. My department is fortunate to have a great relationship with local sheriff deputies. They have on occasion assisted with medical and fire calls. They have never cancelled us (even if they did we would drive by and make a presence). The key is they have not performed anything they were not trained or equipped for. I do not support police agencies that try to race to a scene just to cancel other responders as you basically stated. From your comments I must assume that they have no background in fire or medical calls and no equipment. I believe your department has a obligation to follow up on any call your requested on (emergency or not). This is about public safety/service. We are obligated to ensure the safety of law enforcement personnel as much as the public at large. It's the right thing to do.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          We get along great with our PD, Sheriff's and the State Patrol. When you're running 15-20 calls a shift it's a huge help to have them put out a trash can fire, turn you around on a non-injury, no hazards crash, or tell you the drunk fistfighters have already left the scene. They always give us a size-up and leave it up to us if we want to continue or not, and we've never had a problem. (well, if you don't count piling 4-5 patrol cars in front of the fire building as a problem...but we're working on that one )

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I guess if the law officer gets to the scene before we do, the chief or ***'t. would be the first to go to the law officer (incident commander) and take charge from there. If the first arriving law officer tells the Fire Dept to disregard, everything is taken care of, the law officer has just accepted responcibility (as incident commander) for ANYTHING that happens during and after.
                            About a month ago, we had a fire in a house with heavy smoke and a victim still inside. It was a newer house and very air tight. According to the clocks in the house, they all quit working at 13:05 and we got paged out at 15:35. The law officer who responded first there started to break windows, trying to let the smoke out. When we got there, a little fire had started and FORTUNATELY for the law officer, there was no back draft. Evidently the heat inside somewhat cooled down and the fire which originated in the kitchen (microwave) burned through the floor and into the basement, melting the solder joints of water pipes and thus put the fire out (mostly). Using positive pressure at the time was impossible since the windows were broken and the rescue was obviously turned into a recovery.
                            BUT we learned we needed to educate our law officers on how to handle and what to look for if they arrive on scene before we do!! So, we set up a class from an instructor/investigator to teach what we want and need from law officials who arrive before we do!! If they see fires to a building in to opposing spots and by the time we arrive, the two fires have met, the law officers can be VERY BENIFICIAL in fire orgin and cause!!!
                            I think it is our responcibility as firefighters to educate law officers to SAFELY help us and do their job too!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I think this will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The leaderships of the departments involved (PD and FD) will determine a lot. In general we don't have problems with law enforcement here.

                              The majority of the time they are helpful, give good sizeups of a situation and do whatever they can to help.

                              Are they all perfect? Nope, there was the highway patrol officer that didn't want to get out of his car to direct traffic in the 97 degree heat so he threatened to arrest me and 2 other firefighters for blocking one lane of a roadway - he thought that parking 250 feet down the road in a driveway was a better solution. There was another one that thought that it was more important to keep traffic flowing on the interstate than to keep my people safe on an extrication during rush hour.

                              There are also all those officers who are happy to calm down the beligerant drunks, watch your back in the crack houses, direct traffic for you in all kinds of weather, help you with CPR when they could let you do it on your own etc. etc....

                              Bottom line - there are good apples and bad in every basket - if your local system isn't working - take responsibility and fix it.

                              Have you offered them training for basic medical if they don't have it? Have you given them an awareness of what you are looking for when you arrive on scene? Have they been educated that just because you don't 'see' anything when you arrive doesn't mean the attic, walls or basement aren't concealing fire? Have you done critiques with them after things that went well and things that didn't?

                              Teamwork folks, that's what it's all about. The system works best when Law Enforcement, EMS, Fire & Rescue all work together.
                              Susan Lounsbury
                              Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
                              Griffith Volunteer FD

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                The deputies here do that 10-22(that means "disregard" in this part of the USA) crap a lot. It is our department policy that we proceed anyway until we have our own visual/sizeup. Sometimes they think they have a booster tank and hose in the trunk of their cruiser. Matter of fact, two weeks ago we were dispatched to a 2am residential fire. On arrival there were two deputies already there, and there was fire shooting form the back door of a one story residence. As I turned of the gas meter, and the other guys got the lines stretched, one deputy approached me and told me that he wished that he had an extinguisher in his trunk. Let's see here....working structure fire.......dry chemical extinguisher......what kind of picture are you envisioning in your head?? Needless to say I got that "whatever you say, dude" look on my face and went about my business.
                                JMK271
                                These opinions are my own and not those of the department in which I serve.

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