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Why the 1 3/4 and fog nozzle for standpipe operations?

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Psst,Gonz,it's right next to the beer factory!Crackers optional. T.C.

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  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Posted by FyredUp
    We have 200 bed nursing home, 20 bed mental care facility, 20 unit elderly housing, a large cheese factory...
    A cheese factory.. in Wisconsin... go figure!

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  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by mmagette View Post
    Fyredup, Do you guys use 2 inch with1 1/2 connections or do you have the 2 inch connections on the lines? And if you use 2 inch connections what do you do about mutual aid compatibility?

    100 foot lengths of nitrile rubber Key brand hose with 5 piece 1 1/2 inch couplings.

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  • mmagette
    replied
    Fyredup, Do you guys use 2 inch with1 1/2 connections or do you have the 2 inch connections on the lines? And if you use 2 inch connections what do you do about mutual aid compatibility?

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    How do you guys like it? Is there a big difference? I think this is very interesting.

    Sorry for my delay in answering. Somethings far more important to deal with in the real, non-cyber, world.

    My volly FD has been using 2 inch for over a decade and our reason was logistics. We are a small volly FD, of roughly 20 firefighters, protecting a small rural community of 717 with some unique hazards. We have 200 bed nursing home, 20 bed mental care facility, 20 unit elderly housing, a large cheese factory, a 450x280x40 highway department facility, 2 state highways, and a railroad line. Lately we have had an influx of 4-8 unit apartment buildings.

    We simply can't count on a large initial response so we needed a line that could be pulled by 2 or 3 firefighters, be movable and flow like a 2 1/2 when needed. We tested nozzles and hose and settled on the Elkhart 4000 series low pressure combination tip flowing 200 gpm at 75 psi, attached to an Elkhart B275GAT pistol grip shutoff with a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. The hose we chose was Key brand, 100 foot section, nitrile rubber hose. We chose nitrile rubber hose for speed of returning to service. We hose off the chunks and reload it so guys can go back to work.

    We have 3 standard flows. With the combo tip we flow 160gpm by underpumping to a nozzle pressure around 50-55psi and 200gpm by pumping to a nozzle pressue of 75psi. We flow 300 gpm through the 1 1/4 inch slug tip at just over 40psi nozzle pressure. This has worked well for us with the only noticable deficiency being a loss of range and stream shape with the slug tip. It is fine for interior work but begins to deteriorate at about 70 feet of so.

    We carry 3 hose sizes; 2 inch for handline use, 3 inch for our apartment line and for supplying master streams and standpipes, 5 inch for supply lines. We are truly a one size fits all for fire attack.

    Any questions?

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  • CALFFBOU
    replied
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    Yep, my FD has been using it for over a decade.
    How do you guys like it? Is there a big difference? I think this is very interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    UNTIL you discover you've got more fire then gun.Easy to make a deuce small,not so easy to make an inch and three quarts BIG.I DON'T wanna make the trip twice.Go big and go home. T.C.
    We have an elderly housing complex in our downtown area (built in the early 1970's) with a class 3 standpipe system (Class III standpipes are a combination of Classes I and II, using both sizes of hose connections and Class I water supply requirements.. there are 100 foot lengths of single jacketed 1.5" with a smoothbore nozzle at each of the three standpipes at every floor level) and sprinklers in the basement area only
    (don't ask me how or why it was built this way, it was built to code way before I got on the job, and the parties involved are long retired or dead).

    While at a medical emergency there the other day, a collyer's mansion condition was found in one of the units. Keep in mind that the units have a small kitchen with an eat in area, a living room and one bedroom.. just a tad larger than a typical studio apartment.

    The Captain on the engine company that responded and who helped spec out the new high rise/standpipe packs mentioned the fact that this was the reason for having 2 bags with both 1.75" and deuce and a half.

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  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Back in the early 90s, a big department in So. Cal. (I think LA City or OCFA) was going to switch to 2 in. for high rise interior. I dont think it ever went through.

    Anyone else using 2 inch?
    Yep, my FD has been using it for over a decade.

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  • CALFFBOU
    replied
    Back in the early 90s, a big department in So. Cal. (I think LA City or OCFA) was going to switch to 2 in. for high rise interior. I dont think it ever went through.

    Anyone else using 2 inch?

    Leave a comment:


  • FyredUp
    replied
    Originally posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    I have been to a few high rise incidents and flowed some water. I know I am going to catch heat for this, but the 1-3/4 line has worked fine for me in the past both in high rise and a single story residence. That diameter just works well and I havent has a problem with the GPM, fire flow, etc. And I go to the gym too.

    Of course there are situations where the 1 3/4 inch line will work. You can also kill a lion with a .22 caliber rifle with a perfectly placed shot. Would I want to protect myself from a lion with a .22 knowing that if I make a miscalculation I am going to die? Not me. To me it is the same concept on highrise firefighting. Will a 1 3/4 inch line work in many cases? Yes it will, but if I miscalculate odds are good my crew and I will get hurt of killed. No thanks. It boils down to doing what is right the first time or playing catch up, and it doesn't matter if you are defending against lions or putting out fires. Miscalculations cause pain.

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  • FWDbuff
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Current department we do not even train on standpipe opps as we have no buildings other than a handful of single-family residences over a single story. We have already told the neighboring city that we are not available for structural mutual aid with the exception of the single-family residences on the line in a dire emergency, so we would never use those skills at a mutual aid run either.

    Previous department had several multi-floor college dorms, several multi-floor office and campus structures and 8 or 9 multi-floor hotels, all with standpipe systems. All were sprinklered with the exception of 1. We averaged 100-150 alarm trips in these multi-story structures a year. We averaged less than .5 fires per year, with all of them being extinguished by the sprinkler system.

    Our standpipe packs were 1.75" lines with fog nozzles.

    These lines were not intended for fire attack. We relied on the sprinkler system for fire suppression.

    The lines were intended to simply cover search operations, as department policy dictated that all searches had to be conducted with a handline. These lines were also intended to provide some supression capabilities if the search team located minor extension, which they would stop and extinguish while conducting search operations.

    If, in the very unlikely event that the sprinklers did not extinguish the main body of fire, a 2.5" attack line with a fog tip would be brought up and utilized.
    Why am I not surprised. About each and every statement above.

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  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Current department we do not even train on standpipe opps as we have no buildings other than a handful of single-family residences over a single story. We have already told the neighboring city that we are not available for structural mutual aid with the exception of the single-family residences on the line in a dire emergency, so we would never use those skills at a mutual aid run either.

    Previous department had several multi-floor college dorms, several multi-floor office and campus structures and 8 or 9 multi-floor hotels, all with standpipe systems. All were sprinklered with the exception of 1. We averaged 100-150 alarm trips in these multi-story structures a year. We averaged less than .5 fires per year, with all of them being extinguished by the sprinkler system.

    Our standpipe packs were 1.75" lines with fog nozzles.

    These lines were not intended for fire attack. We relied on the sprinkler system for fire suppression.

    The lines were intended to simply cover search operations, as department policy dictated that all searches had to be conducted with a handline. These lines were also intended to provide some supression capabilities if the search team located minor extension, which they would stop and extinguish while conducting search operations.

    If, in the very unlikely event that the sprinklers did not extinguish the main body of fire, a 2.5" attack line with a fog tip would be brought up and utilized.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    UNTIL you discover you've got more fire then gun.Easy to make a deuce small,not so easy to make an inch and three quarts BIG.I DON'T wanna make the trip twice.Go big and go home. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • CALFFBOU
    replied
    I have been to a few high rise incidents and flowed some water. I know I am going to catch heat for this, but the 1-3/4 line has worked fine for me in the past both in high rise and a single story residence. That diameter just works well and I havent has a problem with the GPM, fire flow, etc. And I go to the gym too.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-17-2009, 05:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FFFRED
    replied
    Originally posted by CFEMS20a View Post
    Check out the TFT Blitz Fire Monitors, all you have to do it carry the goofy thing and it does the work for you. Now you have the power of a 2.5 with no man power required to operate it and the little guys cans still use an 1.75. Just a suggestion!
    I guess you've never operated in a real highrise fire?

    How do you propose on sweeping the floor with that thing?...or making corners...or pretty much manuver in general.

    As for the little guys...if the "guys" you have can't handle a 2 1/2"...they either need to hit the gym or look for another line of work.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-17-2009, 05:32 PM.

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