Its sad

[Kvfcjr]

Its sad, it really is. I loved these forums, i loved them a lot. I learned soo much too from here. I wish i could stay, but i dont feel comfortable here anymore. Infact, when i first came here, these forums were soo awsome, that i actually was able to use the info from them in my drills i did with my other Jr's. The forums are still great, its the people who ruined it.

[slackjawedyokel]

Hey junior--- why dont you start your own
"viritual forums" ? You can be "CHIEF MODERATOR"

[E229Lt]

Buh Bye

[Adze39]

funny...things were fine till some juniors/explorers showed up...

[Weruj1]

someday maybe you will get it ...............bye bye
I really dont mind you Jr's asking questions ......but why do you ask such common sense ones ? Ones you could ask people in YOUR department ? Many many many of us have more years of experience than you are in years old ..........also search the threads to see if the same question has been asked .......and if it has SEE HOW IT WAS PERCIEVED then.............thats all PEACE OUT !

[Dalmatian90]

Mirrors suck, don't they?

[Weruj1]

as of tonight KVCJr has been permanently removed..........thanks WT !

[NFD159]

i'm soo going to miss him, he was soo awsome!

[ffguyc1]

I find that the really sad thing is when any organization has a member who has little time in and a twenty year attitude. I guess I was fortunate, my father was a member, and I got to hang around the firehouse before I joined. The best advice my dad gave me was "stay out of the way and keep your mouth shut". I learned a lot without incurring anyones wrath.
When you sit back, observe, and listen, you not only learn a lot about the job, you also realize who truly has the knowledge of the job, and not just a lot of "war stories".
Unfortunately, it seems that quite a few (not all) junior members think that they have this right to voice their opinions on any subject without facts or experience getting in the way.
Contrary to what it says, I am a 32 year member of the fire service, not a junior!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I guess it doesn't make sense to gloat. You know there is another one out there just waiting to start.

[SPFDRum]

Yes it is sad:
Sad it couldn't have happened earlier
But I am afraid George maybe correct.

[distchief60b]

This is gonna hurt!

I think it is sad that he is gone..I mean it! We all started somewhere and I for one started as a Junior at the age of 13. I often let my alligator mouth overload my humming bird butt...(no I have an alligator mouth and elaphant butt). It took some hard knocks for me and several behavior modifications sessions (suspensions) to learn to sit back...look, listen, absorb and insert my comments when requested.

Today's age of young firefighters (ie., explorers and juniors) are much different. They come in knowing a lot about everything and a little about nothing. My son who is now almost 20 is no different. Althought I have encouraged him to NOT follow me on the course listed above, he still has his moments (wonder where he gets that?). However, he is getting it now and I am receiving a lot of positive feedback from his volunteer department administrators as well as some folks I know that work with him in his career department.

The WT does not condone the slamming and bashing of other members and I tend to agree with them....to a point..sometimes heated arguments and sparring with each other provide for a healthy discussion.

However, at times our emotions get the best of us due to a stupid comment or a controversial topic or a senseless thread or the repeat of a thread that has been beat to death countless times or finally the thread that you don't understand because of spelling. As a result of that....myself included fire off shots that may not be in the best interest of the forums. The result is an onslaught of assaults back and forth and the degradation of the thread.

We all have to agree to disagree and do it in a civil way...or at least in a somewhat professional demeaner.

These threads are a valuable tool for all, especially the fire service leaders of the future. We can only hope that these future leaders "get it" and learn from the lessons and mistakes that we "old jakes" have experienced and endured. If they would just understand their place and understand that they need to read and think before they post, they could gain some information and education that I feel is as valuable (or could be) as a Bachelors Degree if they use it correctly.

I have exchanged EMAILs (professionally done without attacking him) with Kvfdjr off this web site several times and thought I had managed to make him understand. So...please do not black ball me when I say to the WT.....Give the lad another chance and let the recent events go on record to other explorers and junior that come on here with 1 year of knowledge and 30 years of experience....."When you log on....leave the attitude at the door, look, listen learn and contribute professionally." The general concern of these young folks should not be how many redlights they can have or if they can take a pager to school. It should be EDUCATION!!!

[ChiefReason]

Have you ever wondered why?

Stan:
Like you, I am not going to do a little celebratory dance, because, to me, this is not about a junior getting bounced. It is the significance of the ACT of someone else getting removed from these forums.
I understand that a certain semblance of control should be maintained in these forums. They are pretty wide open when you go back and reminisce about some of the topics that have been discussed. Tempers have flared and there have been some pretty colorful responses made to the poster. And that is what troubles me.
Each time someone new is removed, a rule that has existed for some time is reinforced with the stern warning from the Webteam, along with the obligatory "grow up" admonishment. To me; at my age, it's like walking into a bar and getting carded. And when you stop and think about it, someone's words or behaviors are subjective really. How I perceive a certain comment might be different than someone else's comment. I think that he said something and he/she didn't say it the way I took it. And can't the same be said for the people making the decisions to delete a post or ban a user? I know that we have the rules, but let's face; there have been others and recently that have, at the very least, violated the terms, but not in such a demonstrative way as K did. I guess it comes down to delivery. You can describe someone as arrogant and stupid; you just can't call them arrogant or stupid. You can disagree with an opinion presented by another, you just can't do it with a lack of respect. And many here believe that it is that one that starts the many skirmishes. That perception that there is a lack of respect.
When we argue and quite heatedly sometimes with another jake, it is often referred to as "bustin' balls" or "firehouse shenanigans". But when a junior argues with a jake, that is disrespectful. Everyone of you have poured your hearts out over the loss of the Wyoming explorer, Anndee Huber. Her picture put a face on explorer programs all over the country. She is a fitting example of someone who held her training and her desire to be one of our nation's best firefighters in the highest regard, which is why she wasn't here spouting off about issues that she was still learning.
You can't learn what you don't hear. If two mouths are engaged at the same time, neither is hearing what the other guy is saying.
But imagine, if everyone ignored the posts that we don't like, as the Webteam has suggested, how quiet these forums would be.
I still believe that much is to be learned from these forums. I believe that the same holds true with diversity of opinions. I believe that there is knowledge to be gained there as well.
But, so everyone understands my position: I will continue as always. I will attempt to convince my opponents to at least consider my point of view. I may question a certain level of intelligence in the process.
That is not being childish. That is your God given right to question the source of the information.
I hope that we can all exchange our ideas and opinions. I have felt at times that none of this would happen if the juniors would stay in their junior/explorer forums to discuss and come to the grown up section to read and learn. I guess that's too much to ask. Good in theory though, until someone goes to their forum and stirs it up!
Civility. Respect. Open discussion.
CR

[PFire23]

Good thoughts Art!

As I said to 27 this morning, if we keep banning these juniors when they step out of line, how then are they ever going to learn how the "real world" works within the Fire Service?

When they step out of line their Big Brothers/Sisters are there doing the job of "stepping down" on them and teaching them that disrespect from any level is not tolerated. Even with the young man's extremely disrespectful post, I did not see any of the Brothers/Sisters react in same, he was admonished and put in his place, but not in the same manner. I'm sure there was a lesson in there somewhere for him.

But what do I know.