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Who does not respond to accidents and why?

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  • #31
    O.K., let's be brutle here. You have an auto "accidint." The police respond, who, after all, are responcable for "enforceing" traffic laws. They get to deceide "who's at fault." ONLY reason for them 2 B there. If the police and/or the R.P. indicates there are "injuries", then an Ambulance is dispatched.

    I'm sorry, but an EMT/Paramedic staffed ambulance is capable of handling MOST TA's, if it is multipul injures, than a 2nd or 3rd ambulance is dispatched. Unless you have a fuel spill, roll-over/entrapment situation the FD is NOT needed.

    Sorry folks, but there is one and ONLY one "reason" FD rolls on ALL MVA's. Chief's HAVE to justify having ALL those stations STAFFED & the coresponding $$$$$budgets. The TAX payin' "public" HATES 2 see $100K trucks sittin' in the station day-after-day-after-day,...and askes "WHY?"

    Now, I WILL admitt, that those SAME "Citizens" whant EVERY truck PLUS the kitchen sink in their front yard 30 seconds after they call 911 when their house is on fire, BUT the fire service has not (can NOT) convince the "public" that they NEED to spend the $$$ to have them "shiny trucks" sittin' ALL day, with ALL them firefighters "sittin' 'round", doin' NOTHING" so they WILL be able 2 have everything PLUS the "kitchen sink" in their front yard when the 911 call goes out!!!

    SO, to make this long story even longer, the Chief's came up with this BRIGHT idea! Let's send our $$$trucks to ALL accidents/ambulance calls!! We'll be out in the "public eye", people will "see us" and think that their tax$$$ are worth payin' AND we can get that budget INCREASE by sayin' we "responded" to X number of "calls" last year, so we DESERVE more $$$.

    It's called "Justification." And if you ever get a Department official to be "honest" in a one-on-one sit down, U will find this out. (My great-uncle was a Police/Fire Commissioner in my home town) This IS the TRUTH, and y'all can come up with ALL the "other"reasons to justify these runs, but it DOES ALL come down to the FD havein' to "JUSTIFY" its budget. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Just MY humble opion though. But we DO thank whatever God's there may be when thoes BIG RED TRUCKS do roll up out side our homes and the BRAVE men & women of the fire service do what THEY DO SO WELL!!!
    Last edited by DenverFarmboy; 02-22-2002, 02:55 AM.

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    • #32
      DenverFarmboy,

      It's clear that you are completely convinced that your view is 100% accurate and anyone who differs in opinion is wrong. I'll just say that your not 100% accurate, but I'm not going to elaborate because there is no point. Your to closed minded to even try and comprehend another point of view.

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      • #33
        Farmboy, don't we have enought to worry about with you running off at the mouth about how the f.d. only fights fires and the ambulance jockeys don't need us dumb firefighters? First of all yes you do need to roll an engine with the medic, because dispatch info is rarely right. And how many medics do you run on an ambulance? 2? Thats what I thought! Have you tried to backboard a pt. and get them out of a car(minor MVA) with 2 people? I doubt if you could do it. I will admit that EMS makes the money, and the f.d. tends to spend it. So put your ambulances in the stations with the f.d., make it one big happy dept. and make everyone rotate between the ambulance and the engine, maybe then, the chief won't have to "justify" his service to the public.
        Shed

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        • #34
          Jedi: Niether do I think I'm 100 % right nor do I not listen 2 others. I'm just an onery s**t how likes to get people thinkin'.
          Would LOVE 2 hear your thoughts.

          And SHED: accully, they run 3: an EMT driver, an EMT and a Paramedic. So. 3 ambulance attendants, 1 or 2 cops and ???civ's, guess they could load up about anybody. Even with female EMT's/Paramedics and/or PD officers.

          REMEMBER folks, . . . think outside the box; improvise , impilment , OVERCOME !!!

          PEACE

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          • #35
            Denver, come on man, are you suggesting pulling civilians in on your scene and have them help you backboard people? I realize it's not rocket science, but would'nt it be nice to have a little xtra trained and qualified help? Or better yet, how does the chief feel about a big ole' liability suit when the civillian with no training, being directed by your ambulance crew, screws up and hurts a pt. worse than what they already are? Just let the engine come on in and lend a hand, I promise it won't hurt anything, and it may even help matters!And whats with the "female" comment? I hope you wer'nt insinuating anything, and I hope I did'nt give you the wrong idea. Thinking outside the box, is what I get paid for, it's just that sometimes the answer is'nt all that complicated.
            Shed

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            • #36
              Ya'know SHED, just the other night I was watchin' Antique's Road Show on PBS (yes, I DO have some class ) and they was showin' them old plaques that use 2 hang on houses & such for all them fire company's (cia. 1800/ early 1900's)and I got to thinkin', ( I know, a Dangerous thing for the likes of me); HOW the heck did we survive them days and HOW do we survive TODAY with Vollintire Dept's all over the country????

              I mean I don't know HOW many times I've seen "Professional" FF's pull civ's off the sceen to pull hose, direct traffict, even run a handline, etc... I mean, were U born with some "special" firefightin' gene, or or you use like everyone; you gotta' little trainin' and all of a sudden civ's are a "lesser being"???

              NOT that training IS VERY imporant, but really, come on, with a few simple instructions can't anybody with enough common sence 2 pour **** out a boot do most "basic" FF chores?? I ain't "dissin'" NOBODY here, but come on, are ALL FF's born with a big "S" on their chests, or do we all do what just "needs 2 be done"???

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              • #37
                This issue is best decided on an area by area basis. In our area, there are more police and EMS on scene at all accidents than anyone could know what to do with. Thus, bringing FD to all accident's w/ injuries can only make the situation worse. The FD absolutely responds on all accidents where the situation warrants. Although, in probably 99 out of 100 accidents, the FD would only make the scene more congested, or would be cancelled enroute. The other 1 out of 100 accidents, the FD is on the initial dispatch. A universal rule that says that FD should respond to all accidents w/ injuries, or that FD should never respond to accidents w/ injuries can not be applied to this situation. The decision must be made on a case by case basis.

                If your area warrants FD response to all accidents w/ injuries, then by all means, do it. I can not tell the FD in Denver, or LA, or bumstick, USA how they should dispatch the FD to accidents w/ injuries. I can only determine how the situation should be handled in our first due area.

                Stay safe.

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                • #38
                  this denver guy is a sh*t stiring ...... the purpose for a the big red trucks are to provide services plain and simple whether it be fire rescue or ems type services ...dispachers can only relay what they are told and most of the time it is from some one who has NO clue what they are lookin at....bls units are for medical care not all the other jobs that need done on the scene....my bls crew WILL have the protection of a 40,000 lb rig between them and traffic and fire police WILL slow traffic down and the state police WILL have the piece of mind that they need only worry about investagating the crash
                  as far as waiting till WE get there to cut as i read in a earlier post ...WOW....why in the world would you wait ???? i can see waiting if the dash is holding a bleeder closed but come on the "golden 1/2 hour" is burnin away here does everyone remember the basics here???you lose 1 person to C-spine alone and having a untrained person helping with patient removal is NOT the best thing IF a trained fd is available ...as far as hershey is concerned i am familar with the area and the chief has a good set up because the pd is RIGHT there this is not the way things work everywhere ..psp for us could be up to 45 minutes away...hmmm think we should wait cause we dont want to run our $330,000 fire truck? or did we spend this money to serve the public....we are here to protect and serve it doesnt matter if we are protecting the public or bls or the patient it is why we serve..to help ANY way we can ..if you think that the many times we run on one we are not cutting on and the few we do and the timely response saves a life doesnt that make it all worth it??
                  i suppose the long and short of it is where your coverage area is and the services available cities differ from rural ...
                  i do believe this though ..denver if i crash in your area ...you can keep watching pbs...with your attitude i really dont want you touching me ...
                  jeff

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                  • #39
                    FD should be part of the response to any motor vehicle accident. We do not have the crystal ball or Ms. Cleo's psychic powers. We do not know if people are injured, numbers of people injured, if any hazardous materials are involved, etc.

                    Safety in numbers..if the first arriving police unit states that the accident is just a minor bumperthumper/fenderbender with no injuries, the FD can always be returned to quarters. If the bovine scatology has hit the fan, the troops are either on the way or already there
                    for rescue, EMS, fire suprression and hazmat mitigation.
                    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                    • #40
                      AMEN CAPTAIN GONZO!

                      Couldn't be said any better.
                      Tom

                      Never Forget 9-11-2001

                      Stay safe out there!

                      IACOJ Member

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                      • #41
                        To Farmboy, I have to say I have a reason F.D. should be disp[atched to all MVA w/Injuries. Let me give you a quick run down of my city.
                        Usually have 4-5 Police officers on shift, they work zones, We have a private EMS service and they are an excellant service, but we have over 19,000 people 21 sq. miles and growing rapidly. And an all Vol. F.D.
                        Now reason 1) Our Private EMS is very busy and quite often has every ambualnce they have out. (They by the way are in the process of expanding). So an accident out in B.F.E. they can take 10-15 minutes to get their.
                        2) P.D. knows nothing about extrication and whether or not it is needed. Unless it is obvious like the doors can not be opened. So P.D. is on scene in 3min. So we now have 13-18 min before an ambulance gets there. Ambulance is on scene and uh-oh we need extrication dispatch fire.
                        3) Remember all Volunteer, so the tones go off and it can take 4-6 min. to get enough people qualified to do extrication to get a rig out. So we are at roughly 23 min. before a rig rolls. another 10-15 minutes to get across town due to the ingenious driving of motorists when they see lights and hear sirens. So here we are at close to 40 min. to get on scene. And as we all know time is critical.

                        We have been doing it this way for years and so far have not had a fatal car accident in at least 5 years. Though we don't have many extrications, and this way works for us. But, I'm sure there are other depts. that have the same type of setup that this way cannot work for. And this situation may never come up but it IS entirely possible.

                        These are MY views and in no way are intended to disgrace my dept., dept heads or anyone else for that matter. They are just my thoughts on a certain subject.
                        Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

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                        • #42
                          We respond on all MVA's with injury with our rescue pumper. this gives us the abbility for fire supression if the need arrises, and also carries our supplies for fuel spills etc. also all the hydraulic tools, airbags etc. Being a volenteer dept. a chief officer responds to the scene POV, and if there is no apparent need for an engine it will be held or canceled. We contract to a private EMS agency, therefore we run about 280 fire/rescue calls per year.
                          WE WILL NOT TIRE, WE WILL NOT FALTER, WE WILL NOT FAIL
                          -FDNY 9/11/01

                          God Bless America!

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                          • #43
                            err...whatever!

                            Farmboy, I would love to see your version of a medical aid call!

                            Farmboy:"Okay, Mr. Jones, I'm deputizing you as a medic, because I know that you've watched ER a time or two. I want you to start a line on this guy! Officer, stop directing traffic and come over here, I need you to defib that lady right there! What do you mean you don't know how to do that? Don't tell me you've never seen 'Third Watch'!"
                            Living the dream...

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                            • #44
                              Denver, are you just trying to stir the pot? First you make it seem like I have a problem with women f.f.'s and emt's. Now you've gone off on another tangent and decided that because I'm lucky enough to get paid to be a firefighter, that I hate volunteers. How did you get that? I actually started with a volunteer service, got hired at a career dept., moved to a suburb, and joined that volunteer dept. So I guess I've got the best of both worlds! Don't make assumptions when you don't have a clue!

                              I agree with an earlier post, that it depends upon the district. We simply roll the engine for BLS as a first responder, and as manpower for moving a pt., a CPR, extrication, immobilizing, and safety. To me it just makes sense, if the engine is there, why not use it(and it's people). Does everyone carry atleast BLS equipment with a defib on their engines/ladders?

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                              • #45
                                OK, I can not speak for other parts of the country, but here in Central NY, a REscue, and an engine are rolled for all MVA's (or at least a rescue). The reason for this? Simple, Rescue is trained to deeal with the potential hazard that is represented by a damaged vehicle, EMS is not. Being trined on both ends, and still holding my cert as an extrication specialist/trainer, I know both sides of the fence.

                                In EMS, we are trained to handle the care of the patient, to get them out of the vehicle if damages are not too severe to require extrication. What we are not trained in, is problems that can be caused by un-deployed airbags (those side ones canbe a reall pain) battery sparks, leaking fluids etc. This is where rescue comes in. They are trained to stabilize the car, not just physically so it dies not roll over on us, but also so that it does not blow up on us eaither. (blow up is used as a very generic term here, I know that rarely do cars explode like we see in the movies). Yes, if it is just a minor fenderbender (called a 79 here) then rescue may not be needed, and can be cancelled and returned to quarters, but if it is serious (called an 80 here) then rescue is definately needed. They assist the PD with traffic, they assist EMS to extricate, they assist in clean up etc.

                                So, in closing, Rescue and EMS SHOULD go hand in hand on any MVA..... PERIOD.

                                And denver Jarhead: I am thinking that you are really nothing more than some 14 year old moron who unsticks himself from his livestock long enough to come in here and try to feel important by tossing your discrimatory, uneducated views around. Go home, play with your animals, and leave the Fire/Rescue/EMS stuff to the adults who know what they are doing. Watching ER, 3rd Watch, NYPD Blue, and Emergency! do not count as training.

                                Jim
                                ** THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY, NOT A TEAM OPINION**
                                James A. Baleno
                                NYS EMT-D
                                Supervisor, Onondaga County Parks EMS
                                Located in Onondaga County, right in the middle of NY State

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