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  • ttjjss
    replied
    Nothing on this post myself, but just watch what you say, especially in response to 7tower, Lhs etc. The thread i started on ISO versus State farm insurance was pulled off the board because of smart *** remarks and the even worse responses from upset folks, the language was the main reason. lets just keep it clean so maybe some threads will stand a chance of being around for more than a couple of days
    Tyler

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    ...You oughta know better. Generally negativities about a department don't really come out until something major-LODD or a major fire loss,

    Oh so all the facts I posrted a post or two ago didn't occur before in those towns? What is the problem got a lame union who can't leak to the press? When peoples houses burn in Va they don't care if all the trucks break down as you allege?

    ....Just not gonna happen-that's politics.

    Yeah right. So yor answer is no, you have no facts except your whinning and crying. Figures.

    ....And why would you believe anything printed in a newspaper?

    Gee, I don't know they have no trouble saying two of your quints have been out of service due to lack of staffing for 50 days each. Is that a lie?

    ...And as far as Richmond receiving awards I can assure you that the Government knows less about Firefighting than the media.

    So only the union can tell the truth?

    http://www.institute.virginia.edu/vlgma/newsletter/fall99.html

    ..... got anything on the internet or in print to dispute this claim?Or can you take my word for it, seeing as I actually know him?

    How about the staffing exagerations. See Fire-Rescue Magazine, Richmond Quints, Story is written by the city manager. Says quite clearly, no plan for new anything in the budget, the budget was submitted by the previous chief to layoff 50, close two stations and reduce the budget 4%. The new chief submitted the same thing and was told he'd need a job if he came back with that in a week.

    How about response time exagerations according to Public Safety Solutions:

    "Richmond, like many other localities, suffers from declining resources and expanding demands for services. In some areas, there are aging or abandoned buildings that can be consumed by fire in minutes. The fire department has maintained an exceptionally fast average response time (3 minutes 53 seconds). "

    ....tank was 1/2 full from another call they had just come from...that's not in the newspaper story.

    So your boy is a liar, is that what you are saying? You can't trust a Richmond Captain either? Did he just embelish the story? He and the publisher didn't check the facts before they wrote it? Why should we believe your side of the story? He clearly said, "As we were returning to quarters, communications sent #5 to a vehicle fire on I-95. As we approached our own quarters, we were sent to assist #5. I was puzzled. I've never been special called to an automobile fire before. When we got there, officer #5 told me he had used up his 200 gallons of water. We had only 300 more gallons to add. "

    ....We sent a couple of fellas out to St. Louis. They no longer run the TQC.

    Oh, need proof that is a lie too? Gee they just bought all new quints, they don't own any engines.

    http://www.jems.com/ffnews/fd2000/12index.html

    Oh it is written by the chiefs, can we truct them?

    http://www.firehouse.com/magazine/archives/2000/June/

    Another

    ...Like you said, Crap in Crap out. Doesn't say anything in the newspapers, or on our internet site, or by the government that until Nov2001 2-3 companies were out of service on each shift,EVERY DAY-does it

    Yes it says that. Want the link?

    ....But I guess because that is not in print somewhere that didn't happen.

    See that is where you are wrong, it made the press is is available.

    ....On working fires we do get more people resonding-works great if all the companies are in service. Which was the case 98.2% of the time.

    .... you have to pull more rigs, which leaves more stations unmanned(which is fine if you have no chance of running multiple calls at once).But nothing about that in the newspapers so I guess it isn't true.

    It made the papers. So in that 1.8% of the time that 1, 2, 3 three quits were out of service Did you have lots of multiple alarm fires at the same time? Isn't the truth those are all double houses and none of the stations actualy closed? If all you can do is hang your hat on 1.8% you are sorry. After all of this you are still crying. SO if 1, or 2 or 3 quints are out of service 1.8$ of the time, out of a fleet of 32 pumpiong apparatus, that is like any other FD who might at anytime be on another call. Admit it, it didn't have any effect on the public.

    So how would life have been any different under standard ladders and engines?

    ...I could absolutely care less what our ISO rating is.

    I know yo are a professional, then why did you bring the subject up?

    ....What I care about, what is important is that when the call comes-we get there, and do the job.

    You all said you have guys don't want to learn and other who can't do ladder or pumper work. Is that true?

    .... feel the pride.

    Of working with guys you said and yor pal said are not trained. No that is not professionalism. That is a bunch of cronyism.

    ....unprofessional- these aren't meant for anyone but you"

    Well, how many times are you going to post falsehoods on a public forum. Professional hardly. I'd like to think I am matter of fact.

    "Do yourself a favor loser...go away." Almost everything you've said has been proven wrong with references, again.

    Shortage puts kinks in fire fighting
    Companies sometimes pushed out of service

    Oh here is the news post that doesn't exist so it can't be true.

    BY JIM MASON
    TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Jan 29, 2001

    Capt. Don Horton (left) and firefighters' union president David Pulliam pause on the ladder of a quint unit.
    (DON LONG)
    Because of a shortage of Richmond firefighters, some days one - sometimes two or three - of the city's 20 quint fire truck companies winds up out of service.

    On such a day, battalion fire chiefs shift firefighters from an out-of-service company to one where they are needed to keep that station's high-tech fire truck rolling.

    For a fire truck like this to go into action, four firefighters must scramble onto it.

    "When one person doesn't show up, that's the whole quint company out of service," said fire Capt. Don Horton, spokesman for the Richmond Department of Fire and Emergency Services.

    The only way to avoid that is to shift a firefighter from another company, said Fire Chief Jack McElfish.

    "We have to make difficult decisions each day to stay within our budget," McElfish said. "It concerns me that we have to modify our operations, move some people around, and put some quint companies out of service.

    "But I'm committed to doing what it takes to protect the people of Richmond."

    Firefighters generally are fit and healthy, but, like most people, they sometimes miss work because they are sick or injured.

    Richmond has 391 firefighters, 22 short of the budgeted 413. McElfish has acted to fill those vacancies and has 22 firefighter recruits slated for training.

    A class of 12 will start Feb. 12 at the city fire department's training academy in Sandston. The other 10 will start a month later. A firefighter's training runs 18 weeks.

    Three Richmond fire companies are directly af- fected by the shortage of firefighters. They are Quint 1 at the fire station at North 24th and East Broad streets on Church Hill, Quint 10 at the West End station at Hermitage Road and West Leigh Street and Quint 13 at 411 E. Commerce Road in South Richmond.

    For lack of enough firefighters, Quint 1 was out of service 52 days between Aug. 1 and Jan. 17, according to the Richmond Professional Firefighters Association.

    During the same period, Quint 10 was out of service 57 days, and Quint 13 a total of 40 days, union officials said.

    Despite the shortage, all 20 Richmond fire stations remain open around the clock, no part of the city is without fire protection, and response times haven't increased, Horton said.

    "Our fire trucks continue to roll every time anyone needs us," Horton said. "People can sleep comfortably knowing Richmond firefighters are prepared to come."

    Two fire companies are based at each of the three affected fire stations, one a quint fire truck crew, the other a heavy-duty rescue truck company.

    Each of Richmond's other fire stations houses only a quint company. The rescue truck units stay in service around the clock.

    Rescue 1 at the Church Hill station specializes in water rescue, Rescue 2 at the Hermitage Road station in confined space, rope and trench collapse rescues, and Rescue 3 on Commerce Road in hazardous material abatement.

    All three rescue units respond to structural fires and automobile accidents. Each rescue truck has five firefighters.

    "The perfect world would be one with every company in service every day, but this isn't the way it is," Horton said. "Do we need more firefighters? Yes. Would we like to get our numbers up? Yes. But the city only has so much money."

    With the switch from pumper and ladder trucks to the quints in 1996, the fire department lost city funding for 50 firefighters, Horton said.

    Leaders of the 348-member firefighters' union say this wiped out a reserve of ladder company firefighters who could be deployed wherever there were shortages.

    Looking ahead, Chief McElfish has asked in his proposed 2002 budget for city money for 10 additional firefighters and funds in the 2003 budget for 10 more.

    "But that's still short of what it takes to give us a remedy," said firefighters' union president David Pulliam.

    A retired lieutenant with 33 years in the city's fire service, Pulliam said, "We need to increase our staffing by 27 additional people."

    Leave a comment:


  • robschmidt
    replied


    [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Schmidt ]

    Leave a comment:


  • Lone Hunter
    replied
    Syracuse has quints?? Now Rochester we have been using them since the early 80's,and a lot of cities come here to learn about them.The reason they go to them is often to cut man power.Yes the guys don't like them,but we make due.Truck work does suffer,sure roofs get open and windows taken,and we search,and put up ladders.Its just that its not all done as fast as it should be because you don't have enough men to do it all at the same time,so you prioritize and hope.

    Now just because some city has quints does not mean they use them as quints either.Buffalo got a quint to try out,the men drained the tank took off the hose and threw their back broad in the cross lay!Now some would say"see Buffalo uses quints,and they don't complain".

    Leave a comment:


  • gfdtrk4
    replied
    Quints....

    I'm quite sure they work for some places...
    I just haven't seen it in person.

    What I have seen from TQC dept.'s

    Reduced staffing
    (If you have the same numbers at a fire, then you have to get those companies from other parts of town...More Rigs!)

    Poor Truck work!
    (I don't know if they knew how before they got the rigs)
    Oh yeah.....this is not directed at anyone from Richmond, I have never been there! Wouldn't want to post on facts I'm unsure of!

    Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

    If you do work for a small F.D. and you normally decide what your fireground function is by your arrival order, then I'm sure this is the way to go(you have all the tools you need)!

    Otherwise, I am opposed!

    (My Opinion!)

    [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: gfdtrk4 ]

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    ...As far a the Richmond rigs, if they did as everyone is saying and just went a bought 20 stock rigs,

    They did just that. They owned one 75 foot single axle quint and went 180 degrees the other way with 20.

    ....Would make more sense to me to buy 1 or 2 and see what we need to adjust on the next ones.

    I agree.

    .... I see some nice innovations and I commend your dept for that. I also noticed you are in the desert and have lots of room to play.

    Nor would I suggest you buy them. We have hundreds of tight turns and narrow roads. If there are some ideas you can use great. I never figured out looking around your town how your neighbors could run the Sutphen or the E-One. I think the rig we talked about is going to be wonderful in your application.

    Another excelent group of rigs are in Loveland CO.

    As far as our rigs, they fly in the face of what you have to give up if you buy a quint. We didn't give up hose, water, ladder, outrigger spread, compartmentation, etc. They do what we expect of them and are easy to keep in service.

    ...Our concept with the new one is just to add another function if it needs to be put to use.

    That is cool with me, rattlesnakes site may have some ideas, mason ohio, granbury, might have some features or concepts you can use. You can access all through our page.

    Leave a comment:


  • pres41
    replied
    As far a the Richmond rigs, if they did as everyone is saying and just went a bought 20 stock rigs, I can see they would or are having problems. Would make more sense to me to buy 1 or 2 and see what we need to adjust on the next ones.
    I don't know if jack was pushed or just foolish when that decision was made.

    Tower I spent an hour today on Fallon's web page, looked pretty hard at the rigs. I see some nice innovations and I commend your dept for that. I also noticed you are in the desert and have lots of room to play. I'm sure your rigs would not work for us, or at least would be overkill. Being and old east coast town we have some very narrow sts and roads to deal with as I think you know. I could never see us laying 5000' of 5", water is just not that far away from us, besides you now need at least 4 more engs to pump any kind of flow with that much hose on the st.The ladder racks would be a waste of $ or us, most sts or lanes would not allow us to fold them down so we're back to sliding them out of the racks.

    When we run in the rural area with no water we do tanker shuttles the same as you, attaining 2500 gpm using 2 foldatanks and 5 tankers and 1 or 2 engs on fill sites, which I think is a fairly good operation.

    Fallon's do all rigs I'm sure work for them, but we have no need to build something like those, we run a 1st alarm with 2 engs, a truck, and a heavy rescue minumium. Our concept with the new one is just to add another function if it needs to be put to use.

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    ...He taught me fire classes. He know his stuff. I talk to him about forums he say this.

    yEAH yEAH yEAH, seeing as how you've never met me, don't know what my 26 year fire service career was about, positions I've held etc, your opinion doesn't mean squat to me.

    sO ANSWER THe QUESTION FOR buddy, TRUE OR FALSE, 50 GUYS WERE GETTING THE AXE AND TWO STATIONS WERE GOING TO BE CLOSED BEFORE THE QUINT CONCEPT WAS EVER PRESENTED?

    So let's say they stayed with ladders and engines. How you gonna staff them and make it work?

    That's right quints did not bring the staffing problem to Richmond and they didn't close any stations using quints.

    So is it the rigs fault that it hits cars on the way back from a call but not going there?

    iS IT THE RIGS FAULT IT TOOK 6 MONTHS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LOAD HOSE?

    Do the company offers like yor buddy share any of the responsibility for not knowing how to be firefighters and pump operators? Does all training have to be done at the Drill tower?

    He wrote a poorly ballanced piece. End of story.

    Quit crying and figure out how to use your toys.

    The topic is quints. We know Richmond did a horrible job specing them if you can believe the two sources spouting all the problems. Yet we can't read a 3rd party verification of any problems. News story about say all three trucks breaking down, injured firefighters laying hose, etc. You can in Detroit, Houston, etc. Why not Richmond, conspiracy??

    100 workers a year.. Yeah right. Post some facts, on who did this. Maybe 5 FD's on earth can say that, does that mean all the rest of the departments aren't real departments?? Obviously the reset design better trucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jake the Hose monkey
    replied
    7 loser

    I know Jake Rixner, He taught me fire classes. He know his stuff. I talk to him about forums he say this.

    Larry is a bitter man who have no real street experiance. He don't know bout fightin 90 to 100 worker a year for 20 years. no goin inside with the pipe, too dangerious. He build big trucks to fight bldgs that are gone when he get there.

    Jake say larry probably have some disfunction like a small penis. He say girls laugh at him and make him madd. he Only know that bigger fire truck better. Never mind the poor older city puke who have to ride the junk that a-holes like him build. Jake say he not a real firemans anyhow. just a pretender like his buddy Jack.

    Leave a comment:


  • PA Volunteer
    replied
    See what I mean?

    Stay Safe

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    So PAfireman,

    I repeated their claims,didn't make them up.

    But heck, post a third party source other than the FD or another FD site that says their quint system is not working well.

    Document any of the claims. You know a newspaper, internet site, etc.

    They received government awards for it. Print the contrary? It ought to be easy to prove. Go ahead!

    Leave a comment:


  • pres41
    replied
    Gentlemen:

    Not to get off on a tangent here, but I did notice one thing, It seems to me if you are willing to stand by what you post, your profile would be somewhat more complete. I'm not gonna point any fingers here, but if you look at my profile I'm not afraid to tell people who I am and where I'm from and who I'm associated with. Just seems to me it would give more insight to the posts we put up here



    Union Fire Co Carlisle Pa

    [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: pres41 ]

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    So PAfireman,

    Post a third party source other than the FD that says their quint system is not working well.

    They received government awards for it. Print the contrary? Go ahead!

    Leave a comment:


  • PA Volunteer
    replied
    Note to everyone ... Larry, LHS*, LoveLock, the7tower, and whatever other names he's used, is nothing but a bureaucrat, board room, calculating person who does nothing other than twist words, numbers, etc. to try to accomplish his point - or better put, accomplish the opposite of whatever someone else is trying to prove.

    A few months ago, Larry was praising Richmond for properly applying the quint concept and using Richmond as an example of how wonderful quints are. All of a sudden, that doesn't apply anymore, at least where Larry is concerned.

    As you can see, discussing things with Larry is a waste of time. His story changes as often as his Firehouse.com ID.

    Stay Safe

    Leave a comment:


  • the7tower
    replied
    ....Pulling quotes of mine from other forums and out of context. for continuing to bash not only me,Richmond Fire AND it's members

    It is bashing when I simply repeat what the ywo of you from richmond publish about your own FD and I give sources for your words> Yeah right!

    ...Your rants- while based on facts

    So it is bashing to state facts. You started them and your buddy.

    ....are nothing but your interpretation of of 2 dimensions

    Yeah yeah yeah, "we onl have accidents on the way back from calls." "old guys don't know how to vent or pump" "takes two rigs to do a car" "It is lonely in the station" "quints cut the staffing" erc. No interopretation needed is there?

    ...how in God's green earth would you have ANY idea of whats going on here in Richmond Fire

    Seen it first hand, talked with your members and chiefs, read...

    ...I am here.I have ridden on these Quints, responded on them, fought fire with them, watched them break- 2 or 3 at the same time.

    So where was that in the story?

    ...Who gives a hairy mooses butt if you're a ISO 1
    rated department?

    coming from a FD that in 10 years fell from a Class 2 to a lass 4, I doubt you want to brag do you? You don't need a paid department for a Class 4.

    ....Can you fight fire?

    Gee, from all I've read writtn by your members you all certainly can't. Independent analysis indicates that a Class 1 beats a 4 right?

    ...are you one of those creative agencies that manages a fire form outside with IMS?

    You mean like every photo on your fire department web page shows you guys doing?

    ....So how many apparatus do you have total?How many stations?How many firefighters?

    Enough and we don't whine publicy.

    I'm very proud about you, you can't defend your own fire department so you think you'll attack mine. Good luck, we don't have three quints break down at a call like you brag about. We don't say they cut staffing when in fact you have 35% moere fighters on an alarm that you did before quints. See the fact are out there for all to read and you guys continue to cry and whine. Yes, it is you and your firefighters not the fire trucks or concept. Crap in crap out.

    ...These are questions that I do not care to have answers to. It would be dishonorable and disrespectful to ask.

    So why did you ask them?

    ...I will do so in a way respectful to you as a fellow Firefighter.

    You mean like telling the truth? Not covering up the facts? It is the guys huh, not the rigs?

    ''''"Most of us here really dreaded the day when we switched to all Quints.

    Figures never gave them a chance.

    .....They are a hassle-we make 'em work.

    Yeah mustbe horrible pulling a hose off a ladder pumper like thousand of other FD's do daily and don't cry about it.

    ...They would have worked better sooner if they would have been spec'd out with their primary mission in mind( that's firefighting, not parades).

    Well obviously you have a real strong union to let this stuff happen to you, and let the chief still be there, and have your staffing cut 50% and and and.

    ...the firefighters of Richmond, who had no input on how these things were designed, took equipment with inherent flaws and accomplished their primary mission,

    Cool, I thought so, just makes most of what we've read published by rfd members bunk, doesn't it. St Louis made it work, and Syracuse, etc.

    ...Honor and professionalism, cornerstones of our mission-something you obviously lack.

    Excuse me? Takes 6 months to load hose to lay right? Takes two rigs to take on a car? Guys can't drive? That is honor and professionalism. Seems it is time for a bunch of you to change careers.

    ...And my personal favorite, a compliment to himself:

    Like Syracuse, Dade County, Ft Worth, St Louis, certainly not Richmond....

    ....Its all Jacks fault...

    What is interesting is te union president and the fire chief are onlt off by 7 guys out of 391 firefighters to agreeing, his fault eh? SO when you get the extra 7 everything will be just fire right???

    Times Dispatch
    Looking ahead, Chief McElfish has asked in his proposed 2002 budget for city money for 10 additional firefighters and funds in the 2003 budget for 10 more.

    "But that's still short of what it takes to give us a remedy," said firefighters' union president David Pulliam.

    A retired lieutenant with 33 years in the city's fire service, Pulliam said, "We need to increase our staffing by 27 additional people.

    This would restore a reserve to draw from to keep those quint companies in service every day, he said.

    "

    Gee the union president is om record supporting 20 quints as the right number.


    Get a life, Rob. It's just apparatus.
    The people in your case are the week link and the ones who make it work.

    [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: the7tower ]

    Leave a comment:

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