NFPA on Goggles on fire helmets

[guardangel]

Hi I need to know where I can get info on the NFPA regulations both current and past. I have gone to NFPA's web site but you must pay for the info, I need info on Goggle's placed on fire helmets instead of having the face shield I am having a hard time with many members of my fire dept they say goggles don't meet NFPA regulations.

[berger3447]

I had read a few week ago on a post that NFPA no longer recognizes the flip down face shield as "primary eye protection" but that the NFPA goggles are considered as primary protection. I too would like to see the official NFPA interpretation, because if what I read can be verified, we will probably phase out the face shields for goggles, but I need verification on what NFPA thinks. Please help me out, too.

[engine117]

I also have read in many sources that NFPA does not identify the faceshield as being primary eye protection. Rather, it is termed "secondary eye protection," thus still requiring primary eye protection whether it be safety glasses or goggles. Hope this helps a little.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: engine117 ]

[BLACKSHEEP1]

This is a can of worms but I'll do my best to try and help. I did some research on this a short time ago and I'll try to paraphrase it. The American National Standards Institute z87.1 is referenced by both OSHA and NFPA 1500 as the benchmark for eye protection. Also when NFPA standards reference ANSI z87.1 they specifically require PRIMARY eye protection.
Example:
Primary- eye protection can be worn alone or with secondary protection.
Secondary- may be worn with only primary protection.
Faceshield- intended to shield a wearer's face or portion of their face,in addition to the eyes, (faceshields are a secondary protector and shall be used only with primary protection).
Goggles- intended to fit the face and surround the eyes,( they are primary protection).
NFPA 1500(1997) is normally referenced and it lays out the requirements for eye protection, (including the use of an SCBA mask for a protector) However 5-10.3 specifically states that when operating in the hazard are w/o a facepiece, members shall employ goggles for protection.
NFPA 1971(4-2.2) outlines the requirements for helmets which shall have the following: a faceshield, goggles,or both.
Clearly the NFPA standard is confusing so for the benefit of this argument I'm going to reference NFPA 1500 which refers to the ANSI z87.1 and that CLEARLY sets the standards for eye protection. in this it appears that a faceshield cannot be considerred primary eye protection, where the ANSI standard goggles can be considered as primary.
By the way Federal OSHA standard-29 CFR eye& face protection 1910-133 require ANSI z87.1 (as primary) be provided for employees.
I would recomend the NFPA 1971-2000 faceshield, AND goggles that meet the ANSI z87.1, in this way both standards are met. The last new faceshield I saw even had stamped on it that it did not provide primary eye care.
I hope this helps, sorry it's so long.