IAFF

[DixieFire53]

I need some help. I have a new firefighter assigned to my engine co. His dad is the chief of our department. I am the shop steward for my district for the IAFF. I have spoke to him about becoming a member. The problem is our union is not yet recognized by our city. He keeps telling my that the union can not do anything for him. I have argued the point that it is not what it can do for you here but it is what they do for the profession as a whole at the federal level.

What I need is some good post on what the IAFF does for the fire service as a whole. If he sees other ff’s from other cities opinion he might change is mind. Thanks

[mongofire_99]

They supported al gore without asking any of us what we thought.

[firemtgene74]

First of all its not about what they can do for "me" its about what they can do for "us" a person stuck on "what can they do for me?" is a detrement to your union.

Lets look at the history of the IAFF. The goal of the IAFF is its fire fighters always has and always will. Gore was supported because he was pro union and pro collective bargaining. You entrust a little power to the leaders of the IAFF to pursue issues on your behalf. If you do not support what the IAFF does fine, don't vote for him.

DixieFire53, contact your district vice president and ask for information on what the IAFF has done for fire fighters since 1918 I think even you might be shocked. There is a "time-line" poster that shows all laws passed by the IAFF in the early years (1920's etc.) that benefits fire fighters today. The work of the IAFF not only benefits professional fire fighters but paid on call fire fighters as well and I challenge any one to argue me on that point.


There is also a list of things your bosses cant do as far as union stuff. One of them is refuse to recognize your union. This is according to United States Labor laws. If you would like I can send you some info on the benefits and perks of being a IAFF fire fighter. IF you think you have all of the info I can place a sure bet that you dont have it all, the IAFF has a lot more info you just have to know who to ask.

[Firebraun]

Great reply Unionproud! But whadda ya expect from a guy with that for a "handle!"

I've always thought it funny that some union bro's are upset when the IAFF supports a democratic party candidate. The IAFF is a LABOR organization, so who do you expect they're going to support? A hard-core right-wing republican? Duh!

Like Unionproud said, if you don't support a candidate that the IAFF endorses for your own reasons, don't vote for them. That's pretty simple. Although, if you are an IAFF member I would hope that the fact that the candidate has a positive stance on things like collective bargaining would at least be considered in your decision.

We do have collective bargaining here, and the IAFF, our state organization and many individuals put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into securing those benefits for us... long before my time. I reap the benefit of their efforts and appreciate very much what they have done. But I still consider ALL the factors on a candidates resume before I cast my vote at the ballot box, and I never do so based on any one single organizations endorsement.

Just accept the IAFF's endorsement of Algore as what it was: What they had to do.

FB

[BucksEng91]

Then, can an IAFF member ask that his dues go to the candidate he chooses, instead of having millions go to a candidate he doesn't want to see in office? Of course not. The millions (which can be used to buy votes...but Algore would never do that, would he?) more than cancel out the single vote of the ignored member. So, in essense, you are making a political statement on behalf of the member. I, like most other people in this blessed country, do not need or want anyone speaking on my behalf when it comes to politics. There's simply too much at stake. So the whole "vote for who you want" is a red herring. You're still speaking for me when you send millions to a political candidate, and you may very well be canceling out my vote.

One other thing - the IAFF is a good union. It protects its members, is active in safety issues, and it has a positive public image, and an excellent working relationship (in general) with fire department adminstrations.

HOWEVER, a firefighter should not be coerced into joining if he or she does not wish to join. And he or she should also not be made to pay dues and accept union representation if he or she doesn't want it. To do so is coercion, and it's about three cents short of a dollar's worth of socialism. It smacks of Mafia tactics, where either you're with us, or you're against us. That's un-American.

My advice would be to let the firefighter come to his own decision (which seems to be what you're trying to do), and don't denigrate or black-ball him if he decides in the negative. That's his right as a free person in the United States.

[firemtgene74]

BucksEng91,

Brother I agree with you. I didnt fully like Al Gore but I stood behind his platform on several issues. Michigan is a collective bargaining state, there are many states that are not. I voted for him for the simple fact that he supported collective bargain rights. I want professional fire fighters across all 50 states to have the same collective power we enjoy in Mchigan.

I dont always like where my dues go but I am only one person and I feel that what is good for the majority is the better way to go. This plays back to the idea of "what can the union do for us?" Voting for Al Gore was a obvious "us" situation.

I also agree with the "joining" issue a willing member is a much better member that the guy who was goaded into joining. Here you dont get a chioce,if there is a union at the place you want to work you must join, but again I am sitting in one of the strongest union cities in the world so it really isnt an issue. Im not busting your chops and please dont take offense, this union stuff is always a touchy subject.

[BucksEng91]

UNIONPROUD -

No offense taken, brother. You do your union proud. The IAFF is an excellent organization, but it tends to get tunnel vision when it comes to politics.

And I would question whether Algore really was a supporter of the fire service and firefighters in general. Seems to me Algore was a supporter of Algore, and that's about it.

Anyway, you stay safe. How are things going in Detroit, by the way?

[firemtgene74]

BucksEng91,

Thanks Bro,

All is well in Motown, and look the Lions actually won one this year. Not too shabby they can only improve next year right????

Have a good Christmas and remember chest out..... head high...... *** low

[FP&LS Guy]

Unionpround,
You need to realize that there are still states that do not allow municipal employees to organize, or require that a municipality negotiate with a union.

I don't say it's right, but that just how it is right now. So, there is another thing the IAFF is working on ... allowing firefighters to have some say over their lives. That might not be important to someone who's daddy gave him a job though.

[DixieFire53]

I just wanted to thank all of you for your posts.

[mongofire_99]

UNIONPROUD

If you do not support what the IAFF does fine, don't vote for him.

Counter point - the union is gonna send him your money anyway.

One of them is refuse to recognize your union. This is according to United States Labor laws.

They do have to recognize the union so to speak, but in some states as I learned a couple of days ago, public employees do not have collective bargaining rights.

So what, they knew that when they took the job.

Firebraun

I've always thought it funny that some union bro's are upset when the IAFF supports a democratic party candidate. The IAFF is a LABOR organization, so who do you expect they're going to support? A hard-core right-wing republican?

It's funny, they always support the democrats who are about as anti-labor as you can get when you get right down to it. All they want from a laborer is somebody elses fair share of that laborer's hard earned wages.

My whole issue with IAFF and gore was they never asked anyone else, they just said he's our guy, never talked to bradley, nader, mccain or Bush.

And we continue to support these idiots that continually drive it up our hiney for the simple reason that they're communist, uh I mean socialist, crap, uh, democrats. Look at what we support. Check out the broad from Tulsa, or B-More, or DC, or Dallas. We supports them and get shafted.

We can offer no other reason except they support collective bargaining?

What about everything else?

States rights?

Gun rights?

Freedom of speech rights?

Individual rights?

School choice?

Parental rights?

Privacy rights?

Personal property rights?

Pursuit of happiness rights?

And on and on...

Those don't mean spit? The only thing that matters is collective bargaining?

Are we that needy of collective bargaining that we will (and we will) ultimately surrender all of our freedom and liberty to get it?

if you don't support a candidate that the IAFF endorses for your own reasons, don't vote for them.

Just be sure you know your money is being sent to that candidate on your behalf through the union. And will continue to be becuase they slapped a nifty little word on it to scare the crap out of you - paycheck protection.

Fully 90% of the boneheads here have no idea what it means, they just support it because it sounds like they're paycheck is being protected when all that's really happening is more money is being taken from them to spend on somebody elses pet projects.

But I still consider ALL the factors on a candidates resume before I cast my vote at the ballot box, and I never do so based on any one single organizations endorsement.

Good for you!

Just accept the IAFF's endorsement of Algore as what it was: What they had to do.

No it wasn't, they could have made a educated decision, or at least made it look like they tried to.

BucksEng91

So, in essense, you are making a political statement on behalf of the member.

In essence, not hardly.

The IAFF supports candidate X is intended to mean the whole membership of XYZ union supports candidate X and shows there support by sending a bagillion dollars to their campaign fund.

There's no essence there, they are in fact making a public statement for you.

That's his right as a free person in the United States.

Unless democrats get what they want.

UNIONPROUD

I want professional fire fighters across all 50 states to have the same collective power we enjoy in Mchigan.

You are so close to the true answer here!

Collective bargaining rights of a state or local employee is a states right issue, not the federal governments. To make it a federal law would be in violation of the US Constitution.

I dont always like where my dues go but I am only one person and I feel that what is good for the majority is the better way to go.

Then what is good for the country would be even better?

This plays back to the idea of "what can the union do for us?" Voting for Al Gore was a obvious "us" situation.

But where would we be today if he was in the WH?

Not even some of his most ardent supporters want him there under present circumstances.

I also agree with the "joining" issue a willing member is a much better member that the guy who was goaded into joining.

You know, I'm going to go out on a limb here...

I believe that if a guy (or gal) is in an IAFF department (or any union job), they should be in that union. Not forced, but should come to their own decision and join voluntarily. And they should speak loud and proud on their position whether it falls in line with teh party line or not.

To not be in the union simply makes their voice fall on deaf ears.

FP&LS Guy

You need to realize that there are still states that do not allow municipal employees to organize,

They can organize in all 50 states. Whether or not the municipality has to negotiate with them is a different story and in some states they don't have to. But that's up to the state, not the feds.

That might not be important to someone who's daddy gave him a job though.

Then we agree that it's a good thing al didn't get the job because everything he got rolled off his daddys back so why the hell would he care about us.

Man, I thought we were gonna disagree. You surprised me.

Anyways...

We keep talking about states and that's a good thing, remember STATES HAVE RIGHTS. The Imperial Federal Government has no business in states rights. All they can do is what is outlined for them in the US Constitution. Collective bargaining, just like funding fire departments, is a states rights issue, not a federal one.

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]

[DrInferno]

In our constitution and by-laws it states that in order to work in our department you must be a member of our union and in good standing so thats pretty cut and dried. Our union has done some of the best negotiating in our area in regards to wages,benefits etc. plus we have a minimum mannning clause which in today's fire service with all the cutbacks is amazing in itself. As for the whats in it for me logic thats garbage. I have supported items that were up for negotiation that were of no use to me but were in the best interest of the other brothers so as a team player it was a show of solidarity for the other members. A weak union is almost as bad as no union so stand united and work together you will be surprised as to the results. Good Luck 53!!

[firemtgene74]

mongofire_99,

I dont even know where to begin with you brother.

I can appreciate you stands on all issues, however I think we are diving way off of the pier here. I have no doubt that what is good for the union is not always good for the country, thats where the responsibility lies in us to choose the proper leader of our unions,our cities,our states,and our country.

True, some states do not have collective bargain rights, look at some departments in Ga. the brothers there just won a long and exausting battle for "sit and confer" rights. This paves the way for the rest of the states that cannot bargain, if you live in a non bargain state you need to thank the brothers in Ga. for their hard won battle.

I agree with almost all of your points I just wish I had half of the passion you express in this thread.

I also wish I had time to respond to all of your points, however know that I agree with most of them. Like I said i dont always like where my money goes with refrence to the IAFF but it is our responsibility to monitor and hold our leaders in check.

P.S. I hope you a a really good typist it would have takem me days to respond with as much info as you did.

[E40FDNYL35]

The UFA pulled out of the IAFF years ago. (PAST HISTORY) We only just got back in, and THANK GOD we did!!! I know from first hand experience what the IAFF has done for my firehouse since 911.
First they set up the 911 FUND. This FUND was the 1st money that our families received. Second on DAY 2 the IAFF came to my firehouse to see what we needed. We didn’t have radios or tools to operate with. We were using cell phones to communicate. The IAFF got us cell phones and tools that DAY. From DAY 2 till today I can call the IAFF to get any HELP we need. The IAFF BROTHERS from all over the Country and Canada came to help us HONOR our DEAD. The IAFF will also be there when we need to talk about this in days and years to come. The IAFF WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND FOR FDNY. SO BROTHERS I AM A PROUD IAFF MEMBER and ALWAYS WILL BE....

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: E40FDNYL35 ]

[SquadHog]

[quote]Originally posted by E40FDNYL35:
The UFA pulled out of the IAFF years ago. (PAST HISTORY) We only just got back in, and THANK GOD we did!!! I know from first hand experience what the IAFF has done for my firehouse since 911.
First they set up the 911 FUND. This FUND was the 1st money that our families received. Second on DAY 2 the IAFF came to my firehouse to see what we needed. We didn’t have radios or tools to operate with. We were using cell phones to communicate. The IAFF got us cell phones and tools that DAY. From DAY 2 till today I can call the IAFF to get any HELP we need. The IAFF BROTHERS from all over the Country and Canada came to help us HONOR our DEAD. The IAFF will also be there when we need to talk about this in days and years to come. The IAFF WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND FOR FDNY. So BROTHERS I AM A PROUD IAFF MEMBER and ALWAYS BE....

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E40FDNYL35:
Brother, you just made my day! I'm elated to hear that the International was there to help when you needed them and I know they will continue to be there for FDNY. That is really what it's all about...brotherhood is not just a word, it's being there to help each other. This really makes me even prouder to be a life-long IAFF member.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: SquadHog ]