FLASHOVER TRAINING

[fire322]

Just curious if FF reading these forums have ever been exposed to flashover training
If yes; was it worth your while
If no; is it something that's available

What I am refering to is a flashover container built to replicate pre flashover condition and teach how to recognize and survive (if possible) a flashover.

OFD remembers FDNY
DAN

[dmleblanc]

My department has been through the flashover simulator twice in the last couple of years. I think it is definitely a worthwhile training exercise. I don't know what size department you are with, but I think it's particularly educational for a smaller, less busy department that doesn't get a lot of working fires. I believe the main advantage is in giving firefighters the opportunity to watch a fire grow from incipient to rollover stage in a controlled environment. It really helps younger,less experienced firefighters to understand fire behavior and how fires act in an enclosed space. It also is a great confidence builder for newer members. The heat gets pretty intense and they get a chance to learn just how effective their personal protective equipment is in a fire situation. I'm scheduled to go through it again in February at work and we're working on getting the simulator again in March for my volunteer department. Let me know if you have any specific questions. One tip...remove faceshields and cover helmets in tin foil or you'll melt 'em (unless you have leathers).......

[gunnyv]

I second everything Dwayne said.

[postal79]

dwayne, do you have any information on who to contact for this type of training, i am very interested in getting my department to do this, any help greatly appreciated

[51Truck_K]

There are two that I know of in the NYC region.There is a flasover simulator called "The Can", up in Rockland County, as well as one in Putnam County. I don't know about Long Island.

They are OK, but it is soooo hard to imitate the conditions of a flashover, or even pre-flashover. Also some feel that because they are in a "simualtor", that it is "safe", and doesn't bring a realistic "game Face" to the fire floor so to speak.

Most of them make you take all the accesories of of your gear, shields,lights,etc off of helmets, due to the high potential of heat damage.

Hoods are mandatory.........(there's gotta be a hitch everywhere!)

[PaulGRIMWOOD]

You can purchase ready-made units in the USA from a couple of manufacturers out to make a buck - or you can build your own for one-tenth of the price! There are design specs available - the expensive part then becomes the fuel, with several panels of chip-board used in every 30 minute burn it gets pretty costly! However, some fire departments who run this system actually make a profit by offering training courses to surrounding districts. There is also an environmental consideration as these 'simulators' throw out a hefty amount of smoke into the atmosphere!

The simulators serve two purposes -

1. To teach fire behavior, door entry techniques and risk assessment (size-up) under controlled conditions, and yet adding an element of realism.

2. To practise 3D water-fog tactics to control conditions within the overhead where fire gases transport and ignite in repeated 'rollovers'.

I have taken part in hundreds of these simulations and believe me - they are one of the BEST tools for teaching fire behavior I have ever seen - as long as qualified and effective instructors are controlling the burns!

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that these 'simulators are SAFE and EFFECTIVE and what's more - they most definitely SAVE FIREFIGHTERS LIVES by instilling in them the hidden dangers of fire gas ignitions.........

http://www.firetactics.com/FLASHOVER-SIMULATOR.htm

[dmleblanc]

Postal....The simulator we use is owned by Louisiana State University Fire & Emergency Training Institute (that's a mouthful....I preferred it when it was called LSU Firemen Training...) The simulator is mobile and they bring it to your site, but somehow I think that New Jersey might be a bit of a stretch......

[Chris309]

POSTAL79-

Call the Rockland County Fire Training Center at (845) 364-8800. Ask for Walter Morris, the Director of Training. I'm not sure where you're at in Jersey, but Rockland borders Bergen, so we're probably not too far. The Training Center is just off exit 12 of the Palisades Interstate Parkway.

As far as the training goes, it's probably as close as possible to the real thing, given the controlled environment. The whole idea is to learn the warning signs of imminent flashover, and understand proper nozzle techniques to save your butt and get out in time.

I’ve been in The Can a few times and it gets pretty hot. Rockland had one of the first simulators in the country and it’s been in service for about 6 years now. I remember them calling it the Swede Survival Simulator because they came up with the idea in Sweden. If memory serves me correctly, we had them over here to train our county instructors when they first got it.

I highly recommend the training, so come on up! I encourage any other departments in the NYC area to call, also. They’ve come from as far as Maine to train in The Can.

[fire322]

I'm glad some of this training is going around

Having been in the "can" a few times I think it is valuable training for rookies and vets.

To PAUL GRIMLEY

read some of your articles on the web site posted
above I'm impress

You Europeans have always been progresive

[fire322]

I'm glad some of this training is going around

Having been in the "can" a few times I think it is valuable training for rookies and vets.

To PAUL GRIMLEY

read some of your articles on the web site posted
above I'm impress

You Europeans have always been progresive

Thanks for the reply

DAN

"HE WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING NEVER LEARNS ANYTHING"

[ff emt-p bleve]

Fashover training here KY is taken to the firefighters through regional fire schools or in house training by KCTCS Fire Rescue Training Branch.The mobile trainers are a great training tool and must for recuit firefighters or vets who think they seen it all.This fire behavior training will save firefighter lives.

Stay Safe

[PaulGRIMWOOD]

No problem Dan - Glad you enjoyed the articles. But remember, I was a US firefighter for two years and much of my work is strongly influenced by what I learned by working with some of your finest fire departments - both paid and volly. The US have been great innovators also.

regards

Paul Grimley

[PaulGRIMWOOD]

Oh - and don't forget the Canadians also! Went to a great seminar here recently given by an officer (Captain Peter McBride) from Ottowa - a really progressive fire department - made a big impression here.

[gfdtrk4]

Hey Paul

Believe it or not...
I am interested in the specs for a F.O. chamber
1/10 of the price? That sounds good!

Lt fire322,
My views may vary slightly from other proponents of "The Can"
However, in my opinion, there is no SAFER way to teach fire behavior!

Also, try to get some of those CFR "silvers" helmet covers...they will reduce damage to equipment!

Dwayne, Shame on you! Do not use a leather helmet in the "can"! Of course you can always make everyone think that you are a "salty" vet. by showing off your toasted helmet!?!?

[choad33]

The fire department that I work for paid on call was had one of the first units in the country (88 I think). I have been thru the class a few times and am required to go theu a 4hr class every year. The full class that the Community college runs is 16hrs with two 20-40 min burns in the simulator. The first burn is a sit and watch burn. The burn on the second day the students are on the nozzle. There have been problems in the past with wacker instructors cooking gear. The CFR silver helmet covers must be worn by all students. I found a CFR outershell Mill Surp really cheap and wear it over my bunker coat and it does a good job of keeping the instructors from baking. colemans We still have old fire chiefs that will refuse to sent their firefighter to the class because 8 years ago we melted a few helmets
Last fall a few bunker coats got trashed and students got burned.... but later it turns out they were having a snowball battle durning lunch and got soaked.