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  • #16
    And one more thing. The above mentioned operation can also be done using smooth bore tips. It is not limited to automatics

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    • #17
      stright bore nozzle is the way to go to me.
      :P

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      • #18
        In my Department we use both regularly. On all of our small handlines (1 3/4) we have TFT automatic nozzles. We use a smooth bore on our "big lines" (2 1/2).

        The reason for the TFTs on the small handlines is the simple fact that we never know who will be on the line. Our Department is all Volunteer, and during the day we may have nothing but "rookie" Firefighters on the line. The Automatics take the guesswork out of the fire streams. They are also easier to work with on the interior attack.

        The "Big Line" has the smooth bore because the automatic we used to use on this line damn near knocked us on our butts. Again with the possibility of having "rookie" firefighters on the line we can get a bigger bang for our buck.

        I have used both in differant scenarios. The way we have the lines set works great for us. A neighboring department to us uses only automatics, while another still uses Rockwood nozzles.

        In the end, i guess it comes down to what ever works best for you. My personal choice would be the Smoothbore, just becasue!


        ------------------
        Rexcin

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        • #19
          Andy, I have to disagree with you in part when you said that the automatic is good because you never know who is going to be on the line . I may be wrong but that sounds like you are saying that some might know what they are doing and some may not. Or that some can handle the flows and some can not. The bottom line is that the nozzle does make a good stream in just about all cases but you still have to know how to use it. Just because a good looking stream is being produced dosent'mean that the flow is enough. The pump operator still needs to produce the required EP to over come the friction loss in the hose.

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          • #20
            Being a truckie, I really don't get to touch much hose, but if I had to, I would go with the smooth bore.

            ------------------
            Kevin M. Fitzhenry, [email protected]
            Firefighter, Truck Co. 2
            City of Bayonne (NJ) FD
            www.bayonnenj.org/fire/

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            • #21
              My department runs with smoothbores on all of our attack lines. the only line with an automatic is the trash line. We train with the smoothbores and they work well for us. I personally like the penetrating ability the smoothbore has. I also like the fact that the smoothbore does not disrupt the thermal balance as much as an automatic in addition to the fact that the solid stream does not turn to steam as readily as the fog patterns produced by an automatic. However, it all depends on how you train. A well trained firefighter will put out fire with either type. Train with what your department uses. Be Smart BE Safe and Have Fun.

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              • #22
                Just carry both.

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                • #23
                  >> Just carry both.

                  Exactly. Although, we don't carry any automatics. Tried 'em & didn't like 'em.

                  Our setup is simple...

                  2 - 1.75" crosslays with fog nozzles (Turbojets)

                  1 - 1.75" crosslay with straight bore nozzle

                  1 - 1.75" step-mounted trash line with Navy nozzle (extra Turbojet on the rig to switch if needed)

                  1 - 2.5" rear preconnect with fog nozzle (extra straight bore on the rig to switch to if needed)

                  This has always seemed to cover our bases.

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                  • #24
                    The "Fallon Tip" is a 50 to 350 gpm TFT auto matic. A 1 3/8, 1 1/8, 15/16 and 3/4 smoothbore all connected to a breakapart shutoff that allows the unused tipsto be used as the pistol grip.



                    four bumper preconnects 2 - 2" 150' and 150' of 1" and a 50' 1";

                    7 crosslays four 200' 2" three 400' 2 - 2" and 1 - 1";



                    Rear 1-400' 2" and 150' 2" plus 7000' 1" and two 2 1/2" 250'



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                    • #25
                      The FDNY has begun a Pilot Program with a radically new nozzle design. It is a solid bore and has virtually no appreciable nozzle reaction. It is capable of flows of up to 250gpm on an 1 3/4" nozzle. It is from an engineering firm in Illinois and is based on a new internal design (turbo-like)in conjunction with the venturi principle. The Chief of Department was so impressed with the initial testing that he wants to g out and order 250!!! It is still in the experimental stage but here is what I am worried about. Down the road, if it is so easy to handle, they may want to try to take one more man off our Engine companies...I wouldn't put it past them!

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                      • #26
                        Most of our crosslays have TFT automatic nozzles (100 psi). Each engine has a 2 1/2" Blitz line off the rear which uses a smooth bore nozzle. Our high-rise packs (1 3/4") utilize smooth bore nozzles because they can operate at lower pressures than most automatic nozzles. If you loose a little pressure due to friction loss/gravity/poor pump pressure/etc...you still can operate the smooth bores at pressures around 50 psi...

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                        • #27
                          I'd like to mention something I heard awhile ago:
                          Imagine water coming from an automatic nozzle as millions of tiny droplets in either a tight formation, straight stream, or loose formation, fog pattern. No matter what the position, they are always going to be tiny droplets because the nozzle breaks the stream. Now imagine water coming from a smooth bore nozzle. It is not broken at all within the nozzle, so a true SOLID stream of water is flowing. Now that you have these two comparisons, through millions of droplets of water on a room and contents fire. The droplets of water are so close to droplets of steam, you get almost instanteous steam. However with the straight bore you get less steam because the fire has to heat a larger amount of water. I don't know if this is 100% true, but straight bores have been used since the creation of nozzles, why fix something that isn't broken?

                          "Interior to Command, send in another nozzle, this ones meltin'"

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                          • #28
                            In our department, we use the Elkhart SM-20 for our 1 3/4 attack lines and we have both an SM-30 and a smooth-bore stack tip nozzle for our 3" lines. I have trained in some classes with the smooth bore 1 3/4 line and believe each one has an application. My advice to each of you is to have BOTH on hand and train with both, then you will know when to use which nozzle. One post mentioned the steam conversion with fog nozzles, which is perfect for a poorly ventilated structure. But if the fire has vented through the roof, then the steam goes right out the roof with all the heat and does not do the job.

                            The low pressure fog nozzles are a great tool to have. The line crew can handle the hose easier with less work, with a nozzle pressure of around 75 psi and a flow of 150 gpm. Once again, before you rely on these completely, add them to your tool box and train with them, then you will know when to use them.

                            Final note.....
                            No one nozzle does it all. It is best to have an assortment on the truck so you will have all your bases covered.

                            Train hard and fight hard. Be safe!




                            ------------------
                            *****The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of my department********

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                            • #29
                              I believe that the SM-20 & SM-30 are combination nozzles, but not automatics.

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