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FDNY and the Vindicator

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  • #46
    Does anyone have an update on the FDNY tests with the Vindicator? My DC is now calling our heavy attack Vindicator our "Terminator Nozzle".

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    • #47
      The last thing I heard is that several engine companies are placing them in service to try them out. Sorry I don't have any more specific details.

      Perhaps a FDNY brother could give us some more info?

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      • #48
        When the fire is putting out to much BTU's for a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore nozzle, and your busting you *** to make the hallway and then the room or rooms of fire, you will wish you had this nozzle.

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        • #49
          LHS..or as we call him on the Fire Service message boards of AOL, Larry...is agruable the most vocal anti-big city FD person you will ever encounter in your life. I "breathlessly" await the daily renditions on ISO, quints and how the mighty Fallon Nevada fire department operates lol.

          This guy is just provided for amusement. Take everything, with a grain of salt. He is wonderful at math. And if you really want a good story, ask him about his "Vietnam War Service" We already laughed and tore that apart on AOL lol. It is worthy of a repeat preformace however.

          John

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          • #50
            who dont have a fire hrdrant to flow off of. Using a vindicator nozzle is literally usless unless you are a prmarily hydranted city. I am sure that the rural setting applys to most departments in the untited states. Good for city departments but that is where is ends.

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            • #51
              You're kidding, right?

              tshayes:
              First of all, I don't sell Vindicators; I use them. We are a rural department and we have two. What does hydrants have to do with the effectiveness of this nozzle? What; you afraid you're going to use some water? Don't you run tanker ops? Why are they useless in the rural setting? The name of the game is getting water on the fire. You need a truck; not a hydrant. You do have a truck, don't you? Saying that a Vindicator is useless unless you have hydrants is like saying ladders are useless if you don't have two story houses!
              I think you're just trying to kick start the debate again, you little devil, you.
              You have piqued my curiosity. I'm going to check out your profile.
              We'll talk more later.
              And remember, if you don't have hydrants, keep your hose on the truck!
              Visit www.iacoj.com
              Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
              RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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              • #52
                Flow puts out fires, and the Vindicator puts out plenty. If you don't have the proper flow you will use more water then if you have a higher flow.
                If a building fire needs a flow of 200 gpm to extinguish and you are putting 150 gpm on it the fire will not go out, and you will go through your tank, and burn down the house.
                If you hit the same fire with 200 gpm the fire will go out. The more water, after that, you put on the fire the faster it will go out.

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                • #53
                  Good point and yes we do have hydrants in town but we run mutual aid and have 75% of our house and commercial structures where we have to run water to them. Some of the times it is almost impossible due to time of day, location, space confinement and other things to have a large enough tanker shuttle. Almost all of our departments are around us are volunteer that run mutual aid to us. I have been in for 2 years and am attending college for my fire science degree and then going on to my paramedic school degree. I am also 18. Study about this stuff alot and hope to be in the real thjing eventually. I have seen alot of fires around us where they are able to use a large amount of water but even if they calles all of there mutual aid tankers it is still almost impossible. We have a 95' sutphen tower for your info and we have 2 tankers 2 pumpers 1 multipurpose pumper grass truck heavy rescue amd a mini rescue. Any other info needed just say the word and I'll be there. How about some info about you guys. I am trying to learn all I can even though I know books don't make up for live training. I like talking to all of the old crusty's. They know stuff I can never learn but hope to.

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                  • #54
                    Power cone on a fog?

                    TSFIRE:
                    Your argument doesn't make any sense. Pulling heat and smoke down? You're describing a smoke ejector; not what this nozzle can do.
                    Have you ever put the "power cone on a fog" at a window and watched it draw out heat and smoke? Yet, you would use this to knock down a fire? I'm a little confused here.
                    We use straight bore, combies and the Vindicators. You see, we recognize that "one nozzle doesn't fit all". We are open minded and don't attach our feelings and comments to the person or company selling products. If it's a good product and they are willing to let us try it before we buy it, then great.
                    I have a real nice paperweight on my desk. We'll keep the Vindicators on our trucks and use when appropriate.
                    Oh and while we are discussing tactics, let's talk about fog patterns.
                    We NEVER use them on interior attacks as it scalds the firefighters. We will use them to vent a room out through a window. The only other time we use it is for protection when shutting down an anhydrous ammonia leak.
                    Have a good one and a safe one, TS. That goes for everyone.
                    Visit www.iacoj.com
                    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TSFIREDOG09
                      We have the vindicator here in Houston and most of them are carried in a compartment. They seem pull a large amount of heat and smoke down onto the nozzleman and have caused a number of burns if used in a hot enviroment. in my opinion it might make a good paper weight but it is useless on a offensive fire. I would rather use a smooth bore and get close to the same water with less nozzle reaction. Just like every other department there are officers here to that love this poor excuse for a nozzle but I would rather just get in hit it with a power cone from a fog or use a smooth bore and then go home.
                      It's not the nozzle...someone has to be on the end of the line to operate it!
                      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                      • #56
                        KEA; he's trashin' your nozzle!

                        Captain Gonzo:
                        WELL SAID!!!
                        My personal favorite is "They seem to pull a large amount of heat and smoke down onto the nozzleman and have caused a number of burns if used in a hot environment".
                        Normally, I don't engage "big city" firefighters. After all, I know little about high rise tactics; they do 24 on, slide down a brass pole, wear class A uniforms and talk in a language all their own.
                        But on this one, giddy up go.
                        Let's see; heat + smoke = hot environment. Could a "number of burns" been caused by the hot environment? Just how does a nozzle cause burns and don't you suppose that a hot environment would be a good place to use a nozzle, a hose and some water?
                        I don't mind you saying stupid crap because your buddy didn't get the nozzle deal at Houston, but you have infected people who might otherwise be willing to try one of the most innovative pieces of fire appliance to come along in quite a while. You obviously missed the feature article in FIRE RESCUE about this particular nozzle.
                        Oh, that's right; you don't care. Your buddy Larry didn't get the deal.
                        And for the record, when we're not using our nozzles, we keep them in a compartment. See, that's not just a "big city" thing.
                        In the future, limit yourself to things you know something about.
                        Your logic would indicate that if your squad got a Pierce instead of an E-One, it would stay at the station. It would make perfect sense in your case.
                        IMACOJ
                        Visit www.iacoj.com
                        Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                        RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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                        • #57
                          TSFIREDOG09 What type of gear do you use so we can maybe look to getting some when our next order comes up. I am curius. Any info woul;d be great.

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                          • #58
                            Jeez; here we go again!

                            TSFIRE:
                            With all due respect, you are trashing this nozzle with inaccuracies.
                            If this nozzle is pulling heat and smoke to you, and it's burning your arms and hands, then what kind of crap are you wearing for turnouts and gloves?
                            I know all about those little holes; it's an air aspirated nozzle. Since you know so much about fog, have you ever put your face down by the nozzle flowing fog? IT PULLS AIR! As for venting with a fog nozzle; it keeps it cool for the guys until the fan arrives. And if it's such a bad nozzle, why is almost every nozzle manufacturer now making and selling different versions of air aspirated nozzles?
                            If this nozzle is doing what you say, then why hasn't there been a NIOSH inquiry or a request by your attorney general? I would say because your claim is simply not true. We have been using the Vindicator for several years with great success and without incident. My guys trust their lives to this nozzle on interior attacks.
                            If this nozzle is causing your people burns then I suppose that thermal imaging cameras are causing blindness.
                            I'm out on this one. Be careful what you say about products. The manufacturer just might contact you to back your statement with proof.
                            As far as that crack I made about Pierce vs. E-One; lucky guess on my part.
                            Regardless what you use, please stay safe.
                            IACOJ-Board of Directors
                            Visit www.iacoj.com
                            Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                            RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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                            • #59
                              Chief Reason...

                              You beat me to it! One of the first things we were taught at the Academy was the way that any comination nozzle on a fog pattern will pull air in behind it..and to make damn sure that you had the fire knocked down before power venting, as to prevent a little "surprise" from burning one's butt!

                              Improper use of any combination nozzle, especially using a fog pattern to create the "Lloyd Layman" effect will upset the thermal balance, steaming anyone in it's path...that's why we were taught that you never attack a fire with a fog pattern if there is anyone still inside!

                              FYI: we carry combo nozzles on our 1.75" and 2" attack lines. Our deuce and a halfs have a smooth bore.
                              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                This may cause turbulence but does anyone think that pulling two 2.5" lines for a fully involved front end of a car is over kill yes or no. I know this is the wrong forum but any help would be great.

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