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  • #31
    Hey Lionpride -

    Ummm, I don't recall any posts here where anyone put down SFFD. If anything, guys have been quite respectful. I, for one, am a big admirer of SFFD.

    So calm down - keep yer knickers on, nobody's downing your beloved department. What we're arguing about are the assh*le comments by some little wannabe who can't decide whether he's from the West Coast, or the Southeast. Another two year wonder, probably a "Fire Science" major at the local community college.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    • #32
      East vs West in the cage match of the century. I can't help but laugh at the whole jist of this forum.

      Here in the midwest we try to take the best from both coasts and mix it with our own ingenuity and create the best of all worlds.

      Different building construction as well as terrain, wildland urban interface, and so on and so on will always make for individual departments doing things slightly or massively different from others in this business.

      Name calling, the tastelessness of bringing LODD's into the topic, serve no possible purpose other than to enflame.

      By the way if 7Tower isn't Larry he must be one of his closest disciples.

      Take care and stay safe on both the right and left coasts,

      FyredUp
      Crazy, but that's how it goes
      Millions of people living as foes
      Maybe it's not too late
      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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      • #33
        LionPride:
        Flipping back through the posts, I don't think anyone here was bashing SFFD, except maybe their new outside "Chief" Trevino or whatever his name is with that throwback remark.

        If anything, being an east coast style dept. on the left coast endears them to my heart. Now, as for the rest of those dept's out there...

        Just an observation from a throwback culture.
        Best of luck to ya .

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        • #34
          Fire is fire, it doesn't matter if it's on the East Coast or West Coast. Every community has its vast differences; it also has its similarities.

          Boston and San Francisco are similar..large cities built on the ocean, with land reclaimed from the sea, houses that are very close together, on a major fault line, etc.

          The tactics used by the SFFD and BFD are similar....so is the terminology (in Boston, firefighters are called "jakes". In San Fran they are called "jakeys") I've been out west twice (Colorado and Arizona) and things are different when you can literally build a new community out of wide open unincorporated area.

          We can learn and should learn from the experiences of firefighters from both coasts.

          PS: Doesn't 7Tower's writing style remind you of someone else? Larry, is that you?

          [ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]
          ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
          Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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          • #35
            Every department has different ways of doing things. That I understand and appreciate. I am confused now after reading all these posts and hope this is not the wrong place to ask a question?? I was told that the California Department of forestry and Fire Protection was the largest department in the country if not the world. Im not into the stats of every dept. but just was curious if true??
            Tom

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            • #36
              I think Hong Kong or Tokyo are the largest.

              Who is this guy Larry? I take it he has been a problem here before? what is he like a 12years old?
              This space for rent

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              • #37
                Please disregard the above question.

                If I were twelve I would know everything.

                Here on the west coast you are supposed to ask questions if you are confused about something. I will direct my questions to my volunteer department in the future.
                Tom

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                • #38
                  Hey Cap,

                  I was thinking the same thing about the writings of LHS*. Very similar.
                  Kevin M. Fitzhenry
                  Captain, Rescue Company 1
                  City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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                  • #39
                    Hi Kevin. It's nice to see another FMBA guy. I here this guy is quite the wing-nut
                    This space for rent

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                    • #40
                      Hey...anyone been to any 1000 alarm grass fires, where 500 engines were there in one hour lately? I love those calls. They're pretty schweet!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I read Trevino's article and was surprised by the comment. I think he said it because he has no idea how to classify his new department. I feel sorry for the guy. He is a fish out of water. Here 4+ months and still has not made one appointment. He has been to 20+ greater alarms in the same amount of time. Your not in Kansas anymore Chief!!!!!! No offence to anyone from Kansas. Though the rumor is he is about to make HUGE changes (hoods, full turnouts, ICS training, new command staff……&#8230 . Bring them on. Anything is better than doing nothing. But, the poor guy has no staff to work with. Promotions over the last 5 years based on everything BUT a test has put him with few quality players.

                        As far as the East vs West thing, there are differences. Most of the subtle differences have been posted already. One I have noticed is the perception about fighting fire. On the East it tends to be viewed as a simple, cut and dry job. Get in.....get out. On the West this job is viewed as a "science". It must be broken down and organized(ICS), then analyzed and then dealt with. Whatever system you prescribe to is your choice. Good luck!!

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                        • #42
                          I will try to keep this helpful to the original question on the topic starter post. My point of view will try to be from the standpoint of what can be taught in some educational forums and unfortunately purveyed in the media. My PERSONAL opinion before the flamers might get upset is I am saddened to see such a split in feelings amongst the fire “forum” here so soon after these catastrophic events – I was hoping the feelings I saw for awhile on the side of togetherness would last MUCH longer – The only EC “vs” WC idea I care to see now is the time zones – everything else is a subjective fodder for those entrenched in negativity.

                          East Coast “vs” West Coast when I started in the fire service (1987) was a generalized notion of an older style (NY, MA,)“vs” a more rapid progression of newer styles (later to become Seattle’s EMS and Phoenix’s overall FD). The media would propagate these generalizations by always showing the most dramatic footage they could of EC incidents on both national and local news (example: the famous FDNY rope rescue off the burning building) of the greater 5-8 alarm fires – and unfortunately they would never show the whole story – they would always seem to show the guys with the boots rolled down, no BAs, etc. fighting the fire from a ladder/tiller or at the apparatus fighting the fire externally. While the usual footage seen on local news stations here in the Bay Area would show SFFD on their latest fire incidents in the same way – staffing on the roof with no BAs on of a working fire, the classic pics of the injured FFs overcome with smoke while inside the buildings, etc. So when reviewed in the classroom the critique would always go over how there were no BAs in use, turnouts not fully worn, Firehouse Magazines articles about the need for the improvements in the scene management systems, blah, blah, blah. Two larger fires in SF in the mid 90s showed some nice flamage from an apartment complex and business – with FFs getting engulfed in smoke fighting valiantly with hose lines and of course – no BAs.

                          Further it with negative articles of political issues and overall large problems in NY (inside examples can be seen in posts of the 3rd Watch forum, outside examples in older issues of Firehouse, and thorough explanations on the NIOSH website regarding FF inj/LODDs) “vs” the commonplace articles of Brunacini’s plans and outcomes of progressing his department forward, along with copies of plans forwarded to some cities following the Seattle EMS provision.

                          More on media – a lay person will see the cover of Firehouse and see that pic of an LA Captain jumping thru the flames of a roof fire with a BA and turnouts on…jump back a few years to another cover pic of a greater alarm fire in NY where the entire truck crew on the roof and ladder, and the crew coming out of the interior was half-protected in a variety of ways – all actively in suppression.

                          NOW…we know that is not the whole story on any event the media covers – but it is what one sees.

                          So…now take this SFFD “outside” guy who might have been educated on the West Coast and been subjected to a biased media and possibly biased educators – and the result can be a highly publicized statement such as that.

                          Just a long theory, no jabs intended – I hope his SFFD statement stirs nothing but a debate here – and not in the media. And along with the last post before this - that is almost verbatim what I heard in a FPT class once...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Staylow:
                            On the East it tends to be viewed as a simple, cut and dry job. Get in.....get out. On the West this job is viewed as a "science". It must be broken down and organized(ICS), then analyzed and then dealt with.
                            Thats the part I meant....

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                            • #44
                              No wonder thay had to find an outside chief, accoring to you their are no real chief officers.

                              [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by the7tower:
                                No wonder thay had to find an outside chief, accoring to you their are no real chief officers.
                                Sorry to sound confused - which response was that directed at? And what does the Vegas reference have to do with this? Is that your department?

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