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  • dz
    Forum Member
    • Nov 2001
    • 30

    Ok this is my first time on this thing so bear with me and my spelling. I have read alot of comments here. And I have something to say. Sept. 11 We all sat in horror at what we watched over and over again. In was unbeliveable, then the the numbers started to come out 10,000 dead and it could go to 20,000. And in all of that hundreds of fire and police are missing. I can remember how I felt then. Days later the numbers changed to around 5,000 but the numbers that touched me the most was that hundreds of my brothers were lost. 344 brothers lost, now my question is what makes this brotherhood? I feel it is all of us being a firefighter. Look at what we do, we go in when the rats and roaches have the common sense to run out. I feel the reason that the numbers that day were not more is because of the action of everyone of our brothers. The quote I like is "All gave some But some gave there ALL." We lost 344 members of our family so lets honor them. Whenever the memioral is, we will all be there. I for one am very proud of each and everyone of them, not only the ones that gave there life but the ones that did there job and did it well. And I'm proud of being in this brotherhood!!!!!!! So the big picture we have the chance to change plan we have so much to be thankfull for lets pay tribute to our fallen brothers. One last thing Lets not forget our fallen brother around the country also. thank you all for the time and consideration of this matter
    dennis
    dz

    Comment

    • j caudill
      Forum Member
      • Nov 2001
      • 1

      Ive haerd alot of crying about "my ticket" or "my hotel room". This service was not going to be about you or for you. Its for our fallen brothers and thier families. I will be thier for my brothers and sisters always no matter what department they are on because thats what its all about. My heart goes out to my brothers and sisters of the FDNY, because some truly gave all. Iwould have done the same, because its uor job to protect our community. In conclusion , Ill see you at the service, when ever it may be.

      God bless the FDNY!
      Your brother,
      Jamie
      LOCAL 3972

      Comment

      • dz
        Forum Member
        • Nov 2001
        • 30

        I'm back just read my last message sorry about the typo. Oh well I'm Polish I have an excuse. 2 thing before I retire for the night. One do you think we will get only 50,000 firefighters there. I bet and plead with you all we can be over 100,000 I know that we can make it happen, we are much better that 50% we are 100%. Point #2 For the last 2 months I see signs "united we stand" again I plead with each and everyone of you. When all the politics and other BS is taken a back seat to what we are here for. I will be proud to be with one and all of you in new york saying as FIREFIGHTERS "UNITED WE STAND. And what are we standing for?? All of our brothers in FDNY. All that are lost, or have lost. All of widowes sisters. We stand with them, and for them. One last thought we all have our opionions as a family aire them out. But don't hold it against another for the diffrent of opionions. I may not agree with you but I will fight for you to be able to have your opionion. The group I'm going to NY with. We had great help in changing our plans. Air line were very understanding and the hotel in NY were very understanding to. A matter of fact she told me to ask for her and she would do what she could to help us when we got the new dates. Just FYI..
        good nite

        Dennis
        dz

        Comment

        • insidefirefighting
          Forum Member
          • Nov 2001
          • 3

          I am shocked by the administrations actions. The brothers had no choice with respect to honoring those who have not yet come home. After a tragedy, its hard to watch another one like this.

          william Patton
          Webmaster http://www.insidefirefighting.com

          Comment

          • E40FDNYL35
            FIREMAN 1st GRADE(ret)
            • Jan 1999
            • 3663

            Don't Abandon My Son
            & Others Buried at WTC


            By JOHN LYNCH

            Ground Zero is sacred ground where the remains of more than 3,500 people still lie in the rubble. Our son, Firefighter Michael Lynch, of Engine Company 40, Badge No. 2315, is one of them.

            Some grieving families have had remains returned to them and have been able to lay their loved ones to rest in a dignified, reverential way. But now Mayor Giuliani, with the apparent backing of Gov. Pataki and other elected officials, has effectively abandoned the recovery effort at Ground Zero and turned the site over to the Department of Design and Construction. This means the remains of my son, and of the other thousands still missing, will probably be bulldozed into a truck along with tons of debris and carted off in a garbage scow.

            I have visited the site every week, and I have seen a drastic change. The care with which the operation was conducted is gone. The workers now are indiscriminately scooping up debris that could contain human remains and dumping it into trucks.

            Unless the mayor, governor and other officials are pressured to change this decision, my son will be denied the dignity and my family will be denied the comfort of a decent funeral.

            The city has a history of treating burial sites with reverence. When a cluster of Colonial remains was found during excavation work for a new federal building in lower Manhattan, construction came to a halt and a new plan was painstakingly put into place that incorporates a large grassy memorial called the African Burial Ground. When human remains were found near City Hall Park, an archeological supervisor was assigned to the site, and no backhoe was allowed to dig until an inspection for bodies had been performed.

            For the city to treat the heroes and victims of the World Trade Center with less dignity is incomprehensible.

            The memorial service held at Ground Zero on Oct. 28 was no substitute for a serious effort to identify the remains of the fallen. It now seems that the service was a gesture toward "closure" to make way for the bulldozers. Immediately following the service, the number of firefighters involved in recovery was drastically cut for "safety reasons." But Ground Zero is still a fire scene, and the FDNY should be in charge of recovering the missing 3,500. Surely, dignity for these fallen firefighters; police officers; Port Authority and emergency service workers, and civilians should not be overshadowed by financial concerns or any other pressures.

            The soul of the Fire Department is the pledge that no brother member or his family will ever be abandoned. For Commissioner Thomas Von Essen to go along with the mayor's decision means he has broken that pledge and abandoned his men.

            Both the mayor and Von Essen are parents themselves, so it only adds to our grief that they don't seem to understand how the families feel betrayed. My family accepts that we will never again be able to go fishing with our son Michael and watch his beautiful smile when he hooks a big one. We and the other families ask only that the recovery effort continue until evidence of our loved ones can be found. That is the right thing to do.

            Giuliani has instructed us to take a lesson from the Yankees and "never give up." We are not giving up, Rudy. Why are you?

            Ground Zero is a battlefield. When thousands of New Yorkers went to work that morning, they were going to war, but nobody told them. This country has gone to great trouble and expense to find the remains of missing-in-action soldiers in Vietnam and rightly so, even though there were few clues as to their location.

            Now we have more than 3,500 American MIAs in New York, and we know exactly where they are. But the city will not take the time and trouble to recover the bodies.

            In dedicating the national cemetery at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said: "We cannot consecrate — we cannot hallow — this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it."

            The World Trade Center has entered into history. The heroes of Sept. 11 consecrated the ground. Those who desecrate it will be subject to the harsh judgment of future generations.

            Lynch, the father of 10 children, is retired
            after 33 years with the Transit Authority.

            [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: E40FDNYL35 ]

            [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: E40FDNYL35 ]
            ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
            NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
            343
            CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
            LT. John Ginley Engine 40
            FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
            FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
            FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
            FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
            FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
            FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
            FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
            FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
            FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

            Charleston 9
            "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
            *******************CLICK HERE*****************

            Comment

            • floridaff123
              Forum Member
              • Nov 2001
              • 4

              Not sure who wrote the message that they were sorry that our plans to come to New York for drinking and parting were ruined. But that remark should be taken of this board. I am from S. Fla. and if I want to drink and party I sure as heck am not going to New York to do it. There is warm sun and plenty of ex New York women down here. I am coming up there any so if there are any funerals or services that anyone knows of could you please post them. I Have looked on They FDNY site but there were none on the 18.I guess this was since the memorial was going to take place. I want to show the respect that the families of our fallen brothers deserve so I will be there just not sure where to go.

              Comment

              • Pierre
                Forum Member
                • Nov 2001
                • 6

                My colleague and I have book for the memorial day, and thank’s the AA airline could preserve our tickets without taxes.

                We will came for the next memorial day and salute our fallen brothers from New York.

                We hope that a lot of firefighters around the world will do the same.

                Please at the organisator, tell us enought early when, so that we can plan it, and so give a better image at this memorial day.

                Pierre

                Comment

                • E40FDNYL35
                  FIREMAN 1st GRADE(ret)
                  • Jan 1999
                  • 3663

                  November 5, 2001
                  Mr. George W. Bush
                  President of the United States
                  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
                  Washington, D.C. 20500
                  Dear President Bush:
                  My name is Erika Ann Haub. My husband is Michael Helmut Haub, one of the Firemen who lost his life on September 11,2001. He was only a New York City Fireman for two years. He was working with Ladder 4 in Midtown Manhattan at the time of the terrorist attacks. His company, Engine 54 Ladder 4 Battalion 9, lost 15 brave men. We, have two children, Michael Andreas-4 years old and Kiersten Edda Haub-16 months old. My husband was only 34 years old and I’m only 23-year old. For me, being 23 I never thought this would happen to America or me. My husband was also a volunteer Fireman with Roslyn Highlands Fire Dept. for 10 years? In those 1o years he became Captain hoping to one day do the same in the FDNY. He was involved in the rescue efforts at the Avianca plane crash in1992. He was very proud to be a Fireman and an American.

                  On November 2nd the firemen protested because they were pulled out of the recovery mission and bulldozers were brought in. I feel that the media is giving the public the wrong idea of why the firemen protested. I understand why they needed to do so. They, as I and all the families, want to bring the bodies of everyone they can find home for a proper burial. On September 14th at the FDNY family meeting, Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Commissioner Tom von Essen promised over 800 family members of fallen firemen that their FDNY brothers would be down at Ground Zero to recover our husbands, their brothers, until the last brick was picked up. The firemen are not the only ones angry, the wives and families are angry, too. The people who are missing, firemen, police officers, Port Authority and civilians died so horribly. Our families are in so much pain and now the decision to dig our family members up with machines with no respect has only increased our pain. There are Indian burial grounds which are sacred that no one is permitted to touch. It's been 25 year since Vietnam and we still search for missing soldiers' remains. So why not keep searching for the men and women who became soldiers on the front line September 11th? Where will my children visit their Dad, the City dump? When you stood at Ground Zero with the firemen you said, "I can hear you and the world hears you." Let them hear us now. We need to at least try to recover our loved ones’ bodies. You wore a FDNY sweatshirt at the first World Series game with your name on it. I believe that was a show of support for the now FDNY. Please show your support now to the FDNY. They need it now more then ever. You said they were making the world proud but after November 2nd's protest and falling out with the police I hope that still stands. You told them to be strong and they have –but without your support and especially the Mayor of New York, they feel alone.

                  The FDNY is a family. Without them I wouldn’t have made it through the last two months. They have loved me, supported me, played with my children, driven me to the memorials for many of our lost men, picked up my funeral dress from the store, fixed my roof, sat with me keeping hope for the first week at the firehouse, bought presents for my son on his birthday October 16th, helped with paperwork and just all around been there for me. I love them. They are my family. The firemen’s wives help each other through this. At memorial services we sit together and share prayers, tears, tissues and feelings. I will have a connection with them forever. In my heart they are all my hero. Let the world know I look up to the Fire Department with pride and respect and can truthfully say my husband had-the best job in the world and I'm proud of him. Please help me try and bring the remains of my husband home and not just thrown away. I want to be able to say that The United States government didn't let me down a second time, the first time for allowing such people into our country and the second time allowing people to disrespect the body of my hero husband. . On your visit to New York you stated, "Out of the rubble and ash and ugliness there is a lot good!” Please allow the firemen to be remembered for that and nothing else but good men “Heroes"!

                  There is a Memorial Service schedule on November 18th. I know you were invited and I hope you will be able to attend. If you come, maybe you could recognize the importance of what the firemen have done and continue to do for the devastated families. Because of the recent change in the method of recovery I want you to be aware that the families are considering a boycott of the ceremony. Maybe you could make it possible for the FDNY to go back to recover as many bodies as they can physically find. I think you have done a great job leading our country so far. I hope you make a difference so that we don't have another terrorist attack ever again. Please do not let my husband have been murdered for no reason.
                  I don't know if my letter will reach you, but I want you to know that I tried my best to make a difference. I am sending copies in all major New York City newspapers.

                  Sincerely, a devastated American,

                  Erika Ann Haub

                  Wife of Firefighter Michael Helmut Haub
                  Ladder 4, Badge #-1695
                  ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
                  NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
                  343
                  CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
                  LT. John Ginley Engine 40
                  FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
                  FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
                  FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
                  FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
                  FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
                  FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
                  FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
                  FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
                  FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

                  Charleston 9
                  "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
                  *******************CLICK HERE*****************

                  Comment

                  • E40FDNYL35
                    FIREMAN 1st GRADE(ret)
                    • Jan 1999
                    • 3663

                    November 2, 2001

                    Dear Mayor Guillani,

                    This morning 16 families from Engine 54, Ladder 4, Battalion 9 and one family from Ladder 105 went to ground Zero to have a prayer service on All Souls Day for our missing loved ones. Earlier on the news we were informed that you had decided to curtail the rescue effort and permit only 25 firefighters and police officers instead of 100 to search.

                    I have attended 12 memorial services so far. At each one either you or one of your representatives were present. Your message was that the City would always remember the brave men that lost their lives saving others. Did you mean that the City would remember for 53 days? Did you mean to say that the men who lost their lives were only heroes for the first 53 days? Did you mean to say the Yankees are obviously more important than the 343 "heroes" that lost their fives and now it is time to "move on" "Return to Normalcy" and "spend money on shopping" to improve the economy? When you spoke you sounded so sincere. Was that just another political ploy on your part to fool the masses into thinking that you cared about all the lives that have been lost and the families whose lives will never be "back to normal."
                    I am only a private citizen. I am a retired teacher. (Everyone knows how much you despise NYC teachers.) I gave the City 27 years of service. My husband is a retired Deputy Chief of the FDNY. He gave the City 40+ years of service. We are well aware that we are not politically in the right "circles." However, I can't help but wonder how the rescue efforts would have gone IF your son was among the missing. Would you have curtailed work after 53 days if your son had not been found? Do you have a double standard, one for "special" friends and one for the general public?
                    Today was a day to cry and pray and hug each other in our profound grief. My prayer for you Mr. Mayor is that you never experience such loss. I am certain however, that if you did you would continue with vigor, and vigilance and perseverance until your loved one was found.
                    Not understanding the firefighters who have been at ground zero for the past 7 weeks and their desire to continue to search only demonstrates you callousness and indifference and contempt for the civil servants of New York City. I sincerely hope that your "confidants" will convince you that "You are only as good as your last action." Your current action will help the world see the true Rudolph Guilliani. It is not a pretty picture.
                    Sincerely,

                    Maureen Santora
                    Mother of Christopher Santora (age 23)
                    Engine 54
                    Badge 3041
                    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
                    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
                    343
                    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
                    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
                    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
                    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
                    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
                    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
                    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
                    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
                    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
                    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
                    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

                    Charleston 9
                    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
                    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

                    Comment

                    • TeeJay
                      Forum Member
                      • Dec 1999
                      • 3

                      I think those last two posts from E40FDNYL35 say more than the previous seven pages did.......

                      Comment

                      • FARMINGTONM-3
                        Forum Member
                        • Aug 2001
                        • 4

                        I'm with TeeJay. Those last two letters from E40FDNYL30 seem to sum it all up. We Should NEVER forget our fallen brothers of the FDNY. We should come out to show our support for them and their families when the families think it is right. My self and my family will be there in support on that day.
                        Union firefighters and volunteers should all show up to honor our fallen Brothers and pay tribute in their memory.

                        Stay Safe

                        Rick

                        (these are my own opinions)
                        Rick
                        Ladder 1
                        Farmington NH

                        Comment

                        • cfdff_eng36
                          Forum Member
                          • Nov 2001
                          • 2

                          I want to take a look at the part of firefighting that far too many people seem to overlook. As we move through our lives in the fire service, we seem to constantly be hung up on the matter of technical excellence. Bigger is better, faster is better, and technical change is the order of the day. To many in the fire service, it is all about smoke, flames, fire trucks, trauma calls, and days-off.

                          But are we missing something in our drive for technological excellence?

                          We are what we are in life because of a series of gifts that we have been given. This is the starting point. What allows us to broaden and deepen the quality of our life deals with how much we give back to others in the way of our gifts to others.

                          This was said at an annual firefighters memorial.

                          "The people we honor here this day gave us the gift of their lives, their souls and their bodies. They got up each morning, went to work, did their job and then returned home at night. Each had the satisfaction of being part of a living entity: The Firefighter Brotherhood. We are gathered here today to honor the memory of a number of fine dedicated men. In their day, they were the torchbearers for our fire department. They took up the torch from the people who preceded them. And when the time came, they handed it off to those of our generation." Ours is a calling with a long and illustrious history. Each of us owes a debt of gratitude to those we come to honor here today. They served proudly, during good time and bad. We can do no less."


                          The spiritual side of this job is the one that I like the most. Sure, fighting fire is exciting, but serving is better. A wise man once said, "all that is not given, is lost." Thanks for giving so much to someone remote. It'll all come back to you someday.

                          It seems to me that those things that have made me feel good during my career in the Fire Service came from two distinct areas.
                          I always receive a tremendous rush from my work as a firefighter. The challenges that my fellow firefighters and I face, the battles we fight together, and the triumphs we share made me feel great. But that was a transient thing. Some days are remembered, but it seems most days are routine.

                          It came to me a while ago that it was the people I worked with that made my life so pleasing. There is a certain soul to the fire service that we must recognize, nurture and prepare to pass on to the next generation of fire people.
                          Have we forgotten what it is that drives the "soul" of the fire service?

                          I am firmly of the opinion that we are what we are today because of the people who preceded us. And when you look at it, we have an unbroken string of service dating back, in many cases, well over a century. The good things we enjoy, and bad things we endure are here today because of the people who went before us.

                          The part of the past that I suggest you cling to with all of your spirit, comes from the following important human traits:
                          Trust
                          Loyalty
                          Honor
                          Duty
                          Integrity
                          Teamwork
                          Knowledge

                          These are the human things that allow you to create a soul within a fire department. When people trust one another, great things are possible. Conversely a lack of trust can destroy a team, or a fire department. Where there is no trust, there can be no loyalty. A person's word must be their bond. No body ever trusts a liar.
                          I am of the opinion that the combat infantryman, and the suppression firefighter have a great deal in common. They work in teams. They operate under extremely hazardous circumstances, and they are completely dependent upon their buddies during times of danger. Teamwork is critical. And teamwork flows from trust. No one likes to let a buddy down.
                          All of the things that I have listed above, and many others that we could define, come together to create that "soul" of the fire service that I seek to perpetuate. It is this close soul relationship that we need to nurture. We need to find the common ground we all occupy. It is my contention that we need to work the spiritual, or soul side of the street for a change. We need to create a desire in our people that will motivate them to want to serve. We need fewer people who enter the fire service just for thrills or for money. I am not suggesting that we stop studying the technical side of firefighting.
                          Maybe I am just daydreaming. But my greatest personal triumphs have had nothing to do with money. I will admit that part of what enticed me to enter the fire service was the glitz and glamour of the fire trucks, the smoke, and the flames. But those types of motivation sort of evaporate at 3am on that routine medical aid.

                          I am suggesting that we who have been around a while have a duty to shape the next generation of the fire service. Everyone likes to think that they are irreplaceable. And most of all, no one ever thinks that their replacements are as good as they are. But guess what? Life goes on. The torch is passed and the next generation takes over. That's just how it works.

                          The torch has been passed.

                          We have to make sure that the next generation of the fire service understands its role in society. We have to ensure that they are not only technically proficient, but are also sensitized to the traditions of the service. These are the same traditions that we learned and loved on our way through the service. If we do this well, the future of our chosen life will pass intact to the next generation of firefighters. If we fail, we condemn that which we love to a future of diminishing importance. Let us not falter as we pass the torch of tradition to the next generation. For the torch will provide the light, that will allow them to see the soul of the fire service.

                          [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: cfdff_eng36 ]

                          Comment

                          • ptownfireman
                            Forum Member
                            • Nov 2001
                            • 1

                            ALL OF YOU WHO ARE UPSET AT THE IAFF SHOULD KNOW THAT FDNY IS THE IAFF! WE SHOULD ALL STAND TALL BEHIND THEM! THEY WERE SLAMMED BY THE MAYOR AND VON ESSEN ON THIS ONE. I SPENT THE FIRST WEEK IN OCTOBER ATTENDING 17 FUNERALS/MEMORIALS, MET MANY FAMILY MEMBERS, AND SAT WITH TOO MANY BROKEN HEARTED "BROTHERS". FDNY UNION LEADERS WOULD NOT ALLOW THE IAFF TO POSTPONE THE MEMORIAL IF THEY DID NOT WANT THEM TO. SO GET IN LINE! AND FOR THOSE WHO POSTED A COMPLAINT ABOUT A LOSS OF MONEY OR TIME OR ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THE MEMORIAL WAS POSTPONED....GET A GRIP, YOU HARDLY SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR BROTHERS IN NEW YORK ARE GOING THROUGH! SUPPORT THE FDNY BY SUPPORTING THEIR UNION AND THE IAFF!!!!

                            Comment

                            • ENG 6511
                              Forum Member
                              • Mar 2000
                              • 174

                              ptownfireman, That may all be true but that's not the image the American people will have after reading the AP story that I read in my Florida newpaper this A.M. AP placed all the blame on the IAFF!

                              [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: ENG 6511 ]
                              Bob Compton
                              IACOJ-Proud
                              IACOJ-HALL OF FAME-2003

                              Comment

                              • tnweber
                                Forum Member
                                • Nov 2001
                                • 2

                                First of all I wish 9-11 never happened.The events that took place were terrible.
                                Second,Im disappointed of the cancellation only because of egarness to show my support. I will now support the decision out of respect. None of this can be easy for parties involved. Especially our NY brothers and sisters.
                                If the cancellation was called due to the families not being ready lets make a new date but if it was political what a shame.
                                What ever the reason lets just be ready when a new date is set.
                                Nick

                                Comment

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