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  • FFNOLA:
    Thanks for noticing, but I am not off base; cfdff_eng36 said it in his post on 11-10-01. Sheesh; don't shoot the messenger.
    I stand by my comments in my earlier posts in this forum. Unlike some, I don't just jump after the last post; I read them all.
    I realize that most felt remorse after their earlier concerns about plane tickets, hotels, the inconvenience of re-scheduling, etc. Cooler heads prevailed after the initial shock of the cancelled memorial had worn off.
    ENG 40 FF did hit it on the head and my hat's off to him and others like him.
    You, however, are off base, because the whole point of my point, which may have been lost in the translation is that memorials in NYC have been going on all along. Didn't need to go to the big one yet, because not all of the brothers and sisters are "home" yet. And it is for THEM and their FAMILIES and no other reason matters. I thought that I made that very clear in my earlier posts. I also went on to say that there should be no MIAs; all should be found and returned.
    Since I/you brought it up; as far as not being allowed to sit on the floor in Keokuk with my brothers and sisters, I don't resent it. I felt at the time and still do that it was ridiculous and you know why? Because I know that the families of the fallen could have cared less about dress. But it seemed very important to the gentleman I spoke with on that day. Am I to understand that if I give you money, I can sit with you at funerals?
    Don't turn this forum into a debate about unions. Some of my best buds are in Local 555. I was in a union for thirteen years. In fact, I was a union rep, but I took a career change. Unions-I can take them or leave them, but that is for another forum.
    As for your comment that it isn't my business because I am not a member: remember that it hit national news. It was put into the public domain. It was not sent as a memo; therefore, it is my business, if I choose! As far as your president, I was merely making an observation and following that with a question. Don't take it so personally.
    In the infamous words of Mongo; I have a right to speak. I don't have a right to be heard.
    Amen.
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

    Comment


    • I have never had an issue with the memorial being postponed. It should have been. The wishes of the families of the fallen fire fighters and the surviving members of FDNY deserve to be honored. Their wishes should be paramount regardless of whether we're talking about the Mayor, the President, the IAFF (you and me) or the IAFF leadership we have elected to serve our brotherhood.

      I do take issue with whoever planned a memorial service before efforts to recover the bodies were complete. How do you stand before a crowd of mourners and talk to the widows about "closure" when most of their husbands are still lying under tons of rubble at the bottom of that smoking hole? How can you talk about "healing" when our failure to lay their bodies in the decent grave they have earned remains a painful open wound?

      Hundreds of fire fighters died on Sept. 11. But hundreds more responded before and after the collapse and survived. Every one of them had to perform a heartbreaking act: They had to walk away before the last body was recovered. That must have been excruciating for each of them. I pray that I will never know what that feels like. There could have been no help for it, no way around it. They had to go home to their families and back to their jobs. Knowing that they would be back to continue their search couldn't have been much consolation. Walking away had to have been awful. How cruel it was to ask them to do it again.

      Planning a memorial service before the last body is recovered (or until the families and the surviving FDNY fire fighters agree that no more can be recovered) only forces them to feel that they are walking away again. Too soon? Damn right!

      Canceling the memorial was the right thing to do. That was what the families and the FDNY fire fighters wanted. Scheduling the memorial before the last body was found was wrong. In my opinion it was inexcusable. Somebody thought they had a reason for that but it wasn't the people who counted. The people who counted were the ones who said to shut it down.

      Don't invoke the wishes of the families of the dead to postpone the memorial when you didn't honor their wishes when you scheduled it too soon.

      [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: kippo ]

      Comment


      • Living the dream...

        Comment


        • Thank you tailboard. I think we needed some levity brought to the topic.

          Chief Reason, I agree with you that some people were going, partly, for the wrong reason. I personally was going to honor the families of our fallen brothers, and the FDNY. I find it to be a point of pride to represent my FD at any opportunity, and and quite upset when I am unable to do so. I have personally witnessed the unbiased support from both union and non-union brothers at a LODD funeral this past summer.

          I hope that whenever the memorial service is planned, that it will end up being a brotherhood supporting the families of its fallen brothers.
          This may sound idealistic, pie eyed, or naive but dont we have more to concern ourselves with than the union vs. non-union, career vs. volunteer arguement?
          Shawn M. Cecula
          Firefighter
          IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

          Comment


          • I'm a firefighter from So. Fla. coming up to NYC from 11/14 to 11/18. I have had this trip planned for weeks. I was excited to hear the memorial was planned for the 18th, during my visit! Since my original plans were to attend funerals/memorials on my own, I wasn't terribly disappointed when the big one was postponed. I just hope that many of you who planned their trip specifically to attend the memorial on the 18th will still make the trip. I'm sure it will mean so much to those families up there to see us at their loved ones' funeral/memorial. We need not be concerned with the loss of money due to this postponement, when so many of our brothers lost their lives. Hope to see all of you there.

            Comment


            • I am still making the trip to NYC, regarless of feelings, we need to stick together as firefighters! See you in NYC.

              Comment


              • kippo,

                Well said. Thanks

                Comment


                • There are 6 of us going from the 16th to the 19th. Regardless of the memorial, we are still going to convey our condolences to the
                  Firefighters of NYC. I personally feel a great need to go. My brother was killed on
                  the job in late July. I cried for NYFD and NYPD. It would do me some good to be with them, with or without all the gingerbread.
                  I hope the others who made reservatoins will join us for this. This opportunity, god willing, will never happen again. We are truly a brotherhood that can never be broken.


                  Gary Schafer
                  North Central Fire
                  IAFF

                  Comment


                  • Just a heads up to others that are still going...

                    A couple friends had reservations at the Manhatten East Suites and called to cancel. They were told that all the reservations for those who booked for the memorial had been cancelled across the board. So if you are going and have reservations you better call them up.

                    Comment


                    • Hey, all... There is another memorial scheduled for the 18th. The information is listed below. Since we're all going to be there, how about supporting the EMS community. The loss may seem small in comparison, but the pain is just as real!

                      God Bless!
                      Cindy Ramsey

                      The EMS Day of Remembrance is going forward! If you need any further info just call me at (212) 870-2301, ext 4. -Marie

                      On nullNovember 18th, 2001, at 2 PM, a “Day of Recognition and Remembrance” will be held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center – Special Events Hall (West 34th Street & 11th Avenue) to honor the Emergency Medical Technicians (EMTs) and Paramedics lost as a result of the Attack on the World Trade Center, and further, to honor and support those EMS professionals who continue to serve our community. The ceremony will honor EMTs and Paramedics from all sectors; municipal, private, hospital-based and volunteers. Please join us as we recognize our EMS colleagues – those who have lost their lives and those that continue to serve the needs of our citizens. Share the strength, hope, and determination that is EMS. All are welcome. For information call (212) 870-2301, fax (212) 870-2302, or email: >[email protected] If you need any other information, please call me.

                      I hope this information help and that we will see you on November 18th.
                      Marie Diglio
                      Executive Director, OperationsRegional EMS Council of NYC

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Truckee_V:
                        DOES ANYBODY GET THIS? THIS IS NOT ABOUT A MAYOR, A UNION OR POLITICS.
                        That's not what the union said when they cancelled the event. If they had said it was too soon, everyone wouldn't have batted an eye. But they didn't, they said they couldn't do it with this mayor and this administration, etc.
                        The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

                        Comment


                        • Well these posts are at least getting more reasonable. Some of you still don't get the fact that every firefighter, every chief, every mayor, and above all every family member involved will have different ideas as to how to handle all of the logistics. Each family will have different feelings of closure and I am sure that they will never all be ready. It is bad enough for one f/fs family let alone this many. Again I feel for the Mayor, Commissioner, and the IAFF president as they make these decisions. It isn't a position that any of us should criticize right now. Do any of you really believe that they're not TRYING to do their best in a VERY VERY bad situation? Give me a break! I had an earlier a post inquiring about whether people had gone to the landfills and I think those that offered and went should be commended. That had to be a tough job also. Ill bet those of you that went did not care if you got on TV like some of the selfish souls from some out of town departments.

                          [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: DSmits ]

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                          • I am still heading for New York. I haven't been back since Jan. 2000 and really want to catch up with friends and pay my respects. The one thing that is really bothering me is the complaining. Yes the memorial was cancelled and many may have lost money on tickets, but why are all the unions sending guys now and not when they were truely needed. I find it very hard to swallow that it was not in the logistics then, but now it is ideal to send members. To those who are still going to N.Y. I thank you for the support. There are many memorials going one which would mean more to the families and firefighters than one mass gathering. This isn't like going to a concert, this is paying respects to those who gave the ultimate and unselfish sacrifice.

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