Remove the FDNY?????

[frontlinesoldier]

What the F*ck is up with that??? They want to turn ground zero over to construction workers? (nothing against Construction workers...they are doing an heroic job there themselves)....But to take the brothers out and not bring home their dead? No way!!!
These brothers need to continue working at Ground Zero...they've been through enough and the only closure for these guys is to see that each and everyone of their Bretheren are accounted for before any of them can sleep easy.

Willy Thompson
Teaneck Fire Dept
New Jersey

[boobarrie]

I agree, in a way. I feel that they should be able to stay if they want too. For some, It will bring closure to finish the job. But, for others, its really hard to keep going. It is a very traumatic experience for everyone. I believe that all FDNY crews should have a choice to stay, or leave.

[frontlinesoldier]

The fact of the matter is...let the firefighters recover their Bros. I know its traumatic and some need a break, and I've been down to Ground Zero a half a dozen times before they told us we (outside depts) weren't needed anymore. I would go back in a heartbeat if I were called. If its a moral or safety issue they are worried about...there are plenty of us in the immediate area waiting for the chance to help out again. If its a money issue (overtime...and we know how are politicians and city leaders are)....I did it for nothing.....ABSOLUTELY NO $$$$$!! I did it for the respect of mankind, my fellow brothers (and if you want to get into the politics of it....I was told, by my Dept, that I was responding at my own risk....if I get injured or worse...I'd be on my own...but thats a whole different issue)

[ENG6511]

Emotions aside for 1 moment, has anyone seen or read the report that the City is relying on to make the changes contemplated? Before I try to have an OBJECTIVE opinion about this issue I'd like to read it.

[FORTff]

[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: FORT ff ]

[DaJRBull93]

Yo was that A** Hole there giving up his life to help others NO!!!! So who the H*** is he to keep the brothers out!!!!!

[NewVI02]

I have no problem with the firefighters working until they have exhausted all efforts to find their brothers (I would too). But if they need to be paid overtime to do this then I have a problem.It is the same as the construction workers, guys came down to help for nothing, but were turned away.Instead you had to register with a company and you would receive good pay to help. It looks like it may be greed getting in the way of compassion, which I would not like to think. God bless the victims and their families.

[Firebear230]

This morning I watched FDNY and NYPD members scuffling at Ground Zero. It was truely a sad sight to see. I think the mayor has put all the agencies in a terrible position. NYPD is being ordered to stop the firefighters and FDNY is being told they can't bring home their lost members.

Safety is a tremendously important issue, but, I wonder if the issue was discussed with FDNY before it was put in place. They should not have to leave their fallen members behind for machines and construction workers to recover.

Up till now, I respected Guiliani. Now, I think he might have forgotten the most important part of his job. Taking care of the ones who protect his city.

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: firebear235 ]

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

DaJRBull93...FYI, Mayor Giuliani was a ground zero when the towers fell.

I would hope that Mayor Giuliani would rethink his position on the role of the FDNY at the sacred ground known as Ground Zero.

It hurts to see what is going on there between the police and fire departments of the great City of New York. The police have a job to do, and they have to follow orders just like anyone else. I am sure that when the time comes to go before a judge, the arrests wil be dismissed and expunged from the records.

I think the media is playing up this "rift" just like they are playing up the anthrax issue. We have to stay together to show "Osama bin Hidin'in a cave" that our spirit cannot be broken.

In my opinion, the brothers and sisters of the FDNY should be allowed to stay.

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]

[E229Lt]

Union sataement:

STATEMENT BY PETER L. GORMAN, PRESIDENT



UNIFORMED FIRE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION

For Immediate Release: Contact: M. Steadman
Friday, November 2, 2001

My name is Peter Gorman and I am a captain in the Fire Department. I'm also the President of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association.

I was on West Street this morning. Rudy Giuliani and Bernard Kerik were not. I saw much of what happened. Those two saw nothing.

They are lying when they say firefighters attacked the police. The trouble began on West Street, at a corner three or four blocks south of Chambers Street. Approximately 1,500 firefighters were marching peacefully to Ground Zero. Suddenly, and without provocation; a handful of police superior officers (white shirts and gold braid) waded into the line of march and began pulling firefighters out.

Was there struggling and scuffling and some name-calling? Absolutely. The police superior officers were arresting people for no reason.

The Mayor wasn't there and his Police and Fire Commissioner weren't there. Now we have the spectacle of Mayor Giuliani convicting 12 firefighters before they are charged with any crime.

The police provoked all that occurred. It was a peaceful march for a just cause and now the Mayor and his two commissioners are trying to defend their disgusting World Trade Center policies by libeling firefighters and excusing police misconduct by a small group of superior officers.

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: E229lt ]

[Brian Dunlap]

I'm sure there are safety and security concerns at Ground Zero but Com'on Ruddi. The Firefighters need this for closure. I say let them finish the job.

[LtStick]

I think the Brothers should be allowed to stay. All they Brothers want to do is bring there own home and bring closer to this hole thing. I think the Mayor is playing with Fire on this one.
So has anyone seen this report that they are talking about. You'd think that at least a summerized version would be floating around somewhere. I think there getting ahead of there selves here. They should let the Brothers finish the job they started.

[SafTeeTech]

I have heard that there are two big reasons why Rudy wants to limit the number of FF's and cops at the scene. Both have to do with.....you guessed it....The almighty buck!!! 1. Obviously the overtime budget has gone through the roof. Members can not volunteer any longer to go down there as it has become a workers comp issue. Therefore they must get paid. Now that the world is beginning to forget about the world trade center (we all knew it would slowly begin to happen......) Rudy has been told to clamp down on his budget.
The second reason is that the city is under pressure from "Wall Street" to clean up as rapidly as possible....Businesses are losing money; the longer they take to clean up, the more they lose. If you have a bunch of firefighters poking around in the rubble, you can't scoop and dump as fast as possible. The brothers need to stay!! They need to bring the other brothers home!!! Not only that, but as they search for brothers, they are finding civilians as well!!!

[ENG6511]

ALL:, O.K,Since nobody else has ask the threshhold qoestions, I will: If the City has to pay overtime for the 250 Brothers HOW LONG should the 250 be allowed to stay? Is there no place where the line has to drawn? Just as long as it takes? What if that is 2 years at the rate they are going? Workmans' Compensation law says that if the City allows them to stay and IF the City has been warned by legitimate experts of additional injury or death{not in an emergency situation}, Workmans' Comp can deny coverage. Now what does the City do? I understand, but there has to be some compromise here!

[Halligan84]

Short answer - as long as it takes. I'm sure the city is getting federal relief funds to help cover costs. Aside from that, detailing companies to the site each day would be another way to do it, along with limited OT. In my opinion, the FDNY has the right to make sure that their fallen brothers are taken care of.