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  • More stupid FF tricks...

    NYC, PA Fire Companies in Flag Flap

    October 26, 2001 6:01 pm

    NEW YORK (AP) -- A New York City fire company wants to reclaim an American flag plucked from the wreckage of the World Trade Center by a Pennsylvania volunteer firefighter during the search-and-rescue effort.

    The company's commanding officer had sharp words for the Bethlehem Township Volunteer Fire Co., which sent 15 members to New York the day of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

    One of the volunteers spotted the tattered, burned flag in the rubble and took it back to Pennsylvania, intending to preserve it at the Bethlehem Township fire house.

    "We had attached flags to the bumper (of a fire truck) and we noticed one was missing," said Capt. Kevin Loughran of New York's Engine Company No. 3. "I was devastated and couldn't believe someone would do that."

    He added that Bethlehem Township firefighters never called Engine Company No. 3 after finding the flag.

    "You would think they would have called us to see how we're doing," Loughran told Friday editions of The Morning Call of Allentown.

    Bethlehem Township Fire Chief Robert Norder is baffled by the criticism, saying his firefighters simply wanted to prevent an important symbol from being destroyed and that he has been working with the New York fire commissioner's office for the last several weeks on plans to return the flag.

    "We're all supposed to be working together. We shouldn't be trying to find fault with anybody at a time like this," he said.

    The flag had been buried in rubble near a damaged fire truck, Norder said. Although volunteer firefighter Matt Zimpfer originally wanted to keep the flag at the Bethlehem Township station, Norder said he quickly nixed that idea.

    "(Zimpfer) did the right thing by picking it up, because it would've been destroyed. But we had no intention of ever keeping the flag," Norder said. "It's unfortunate that a few of their firefighters are talking out of turn."

    He added: "Our reputation in our local area is getting destroyed."

    The Bethlehem Township volunteers went to ground zero on Sept. 11 to help with the massive search-and-rescue effort. Firefighters retrieved a body and a firefighter in critical condition while the volunteers were there, according to Norder. The volunteers returned to Bethlehem Township the following evening.

    The New York fire department lost 343 firefighters after the attack on the twin towers, including five members of Engine Company No. 3.

    Said Loughran: "We don't need a shrine. We would just like to get our flag back."

    (Copyright 2001 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    http://1010wins.com/topstories/Story...957008410_html

  • #2
    The correct thing, the right thing, the just thing to do would have been to give the tattered remains of the flag to the firefighters of FDNY Engine 3.

    It takes weeks and discussions with the FDNY's Commissioner to return a flag? Sounds like bull**** to me!

    Chief Norder is right...their reputation is getting destroyed..by their own members! This wasn't a prize of war..it was descration of our flag and sacred ground!

    [ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

    Comment


    • #3
      NO!!! THE RIGHT THING TO DO AT THE TIME IS LEAVE THE FLAG WHERE IT WAS AT AND FIND A FDNY GUY TO PICK IT OUT OF THE RUBLE. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN TOUCHED. AS FAR AS TRYING TO PRESERVE IT…… THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOAD OF B.S. IM SURE THEY WANTED A SOUVENIR FROM THE DISASTER TO SHOW OFF THE NEXT TIME THE STATION HAD A CALL TO ONE UP THEIR FELLOW VOLLIES. NOW YOU CAN CORRECT THIS MATTER BY DRIVING YOUR SORRY *** TO NEW YORK AND PRESENT THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS THEIR FLAG AND HOPE THEY POUND YOUR *** INTO THE GROUND. WHAT MADE YOU EVEN THINK YOU COULD PRESERVE IT AT YOUR VOLLIE STATION ANYWAY???? DO THE RIGHT THING GET IN YOUR LITTLE TRUCK WITH YOUR LITTLE VOLLIE LIGHT AND DRIVE. AND IF YOU DID NOT INTEND ON KEEPING IT WHY ISNT IT IN NEW YORK???
      YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

      Comment


      • #4
        I 220% AGREE WITH FIREMONKEY70! I am have been a vollie for about 5 years now, and I find it pretty sad. For all intents and purposes, that flag is STOLEN PROPERTY! Just because it was in rubble, not attached to anything, doesn't give ANYONE the right to take it...did you buy it? Was it personally given to you?? Would you like someone coming up to your car after an accident and taking your cd player? or lightbar? or whatever else is in or around your property????
        FFJBARRIE<br />MY BROTHERS CALL ME "BOOBARRIE"

        Comment


        • #5
          ----------------------
          Bethlehem Township Fire Chief Robert Norder is baffled by the criticism, saying his firefighters simply wanted to prevent an important symbol from being destroyed and that he has been working with the New York fire commissioner's office for the last several weeks on plans to return the flag.
          ----------------------

          It took seconds for our brothers to be killed...

          It took seconds for your sorry *** to take the flag...

          but it takes weeks to work out a way to return it...

          Coming to the memorial service may not be in your best interest...

          [ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: sconfire ]
          Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

          Captain Grant Mishoe, Curator of History
          North Charleston and American LaFrance Fire Museum
          "You'll never know where you're going until you remember where you came from"
          www.legacyofheroes.org
          www.firehistory.org
          www.sconfire.com

          Comment


          • #6
            That S.O.B. should get his *** kicked what a disgrace

            Comment


            • #7
              EVERYONE!!! LET THE BETHLEHEM TOWNSHIP VFC KNOW JUST WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM!!! HERE'S HOW:
              www.btvfc.org

              There are telephone numbers listed, as well as a "contact us" link, and a guestbook!! Take a few moments, and let the loosers know just how low they are!!
              FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah they got a real nice site there but I didn’t see any pictures of them looting the world trade center are they going to add those soon???? E-MAIL SENT
                YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

                Comment


                • #9
                  If they have the balls to show up for the memorial service, anyone wearing this patch:

                  ...should probably expect to be asked a few questions and/or get some constructive criticism from the firefighting community.

                  [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the patch..I agree...if this guy had any brains at all he would have found a FDNY member and said "hey there is a flag over there that is buried in some rubble, I didn't want to touch it...but I would like to help you get it out so that your company can keep it." How hard is that? These guys simply did not use their brains, they thought they were getting a souvenir of some kind, but instead they got busted! Their Chief should just admit there was a wrong doing, and say that "this is one member of our department, not the entire department." Especially since he seems so concerned about their reputation..which by the way has been flushed right down the sh*tter!
                    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They were absolutely wrong in what they did. They F'd up, now they're giving the flag back, as they should. Most fire departments have stupid guys, and this time they did something really stupid. Relax w/ the pounding of somebody's *** and do they have the balls to show up at the memorial service. We're all in this together, just some of us aren't as smart as the others.

                      Stay Safe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PA Volunteer:
                        Relax w/ the pounding of somebody's *** and do they have the balls to show up at the memorial service. We're all in this together, just some of us aren't as smart as the others.
                        1. I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting "the pounding of somebody's ***" as you put it, but do you really think they should be let off the hook by simply returning the flag? I think at least an admission that it was wrong to take the flag in the first place and an apology to the members of Engine Co. 3 are in order.

                        2. This isn't an issue of intelligence or the lack thereof but rather an issue of honesty and integrity.

                        [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would suggest this thread be closed...not only is it not constructive but it is pointless....there are thousands of things we all wish we could change we cant lets learn, train, and protect those who trust us to do so with out all this fighting

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I RECOMEND THAT IT STAYS OPEN. HEY WE ARE LEARNING. WE ARE LEARNING THAT YOU CAN CHANGE THINGS BY PUTTING PRESSURE ON CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. AND THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS DONT FRIGGIN LOOT FROM A DISASTER SCENE.
                            YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by firemonkey70:
                              NOW YOU CAN CORRECT THIS MATTER BY DRIVING YOUR SORRY *** TO NEW YORK AND PRESENT THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS THEIR FLAG AND HOPE THEY POUND YOUR *** INTO THE GROUND.
                              Nozzle Hog - absolutely agree w/ your first point, as for the second one, I partially agree. Most intelligent people would know that wasn't the right thing to do.

                              Stay Safe

                              Comment

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