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Firefighters should show respect at Ground Zero

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  • gah74
    replied
    Bubbleboy...If Stray can't judge by his own standards, who's standards is he supposed to judge by?? This is a forum. Different viewpoints are discussed here. His view (and mine as well), don't care for your need to photograph yourself at the WTC. I am fully aware that some people don't see a problem with it. That is okay. I'm certainly not losing sleep over the issue.

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  • bubblesboyd
    replied
    Stray - That's right...it wasn't you that was standing out there taking a picture!!! We all, everyone one of us, come with our own answers, our own thoughts, beliefs, ideas, and background. Please stop judging the world by your own standards and accept that some do things differently - and it does not mean they are any less a human being, any less a firefighter - they are simply different!!!!! All of you - focus on what is important and not what you can not change....

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  • Pvt. Stray Dog
    replied
    I don't need a picture of MYSELF standing at ground zero to remember being there. This tragedy happened live on TV from coast to coast. NO one is ever going to forget what happened there. Do you relly believe that it is going to fade from memory unless it is documented with You front and center of the picture?
    Explain it any way you like, but posing for a photo infront of this site is a trophy for YOU, not for the dead, not for future generations, not for the tired and emotionally drained New York Fire, Police, and EMS workers.
    If you want to take a Pic. to remind you how you felt at the time, then take it outside of the restricted area.

    [ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Pvt. Stray Dog ]

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  • bubblesboyd
    replied
    This is a very emotional topic. And it is one that I am experiencing mixed feelings about. There are many thoughts and feelings dancing around in my head and I so wish I could organize them in a manner that would make a point...and not upset the members in the forum.
    Here goes:
    I have several friends in the New York area, some of which are firefighters and police officers. I have spent many nights on the phone or on the internet speaking with them about what it is that they see, feel, etc. This process is very natural to me because I am involved in the emergency services through many roles - but Critical Incident Stress Management is my main role. I have heard many things and I find myself questioning, not the nobility of the friends in here, but the accurancy of the situation. How do any of us know that the firefighters taking the picture were taken the photo out of anything but a way to remember the horror of being at Ground Zero? Has anyone considered the fact that maybe the horror is so great that taking a picture is the only way to be able to document it so that the participants remember those emotions, sounds, thoughts.... and to never forget what happened? The friends I mentioned that are New York residents have told me about some incidents involving emergency personnel and some incidents involving American civilians. Please do not give all the credit to visiting Firefighters.
    My soul aches at the losses the Emergency Services are experiencing. I hope, with all my heart, that each of you know that the majority of those serving directly and indirectly in the recovery efforts act appropriately. And I hope that you either speak to the person that you feel is acting inappropriate because maybe they don't know....or keep in mind that possibly there is more going on then one can see and the motivation is an act done out of emotion, grief, shock...or remembrance.

    "Shield down, stay low"

    [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: bubblesboyd ]

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  • Halligan84
    replied
    I suppose everyone can debate the morals, pros, cons, etc.. of taking pictures. It seems to me the only decision to make here is the one that respects the people hit the hardest. If anyone from the FDNY or NYPD feels that people coming in and taking photos shows a lack of respect, the LEAST that can be done is to honor their feelings and refrain. You lose the record of a few personal memories, they on the other hand have lost hundreds of brothers.

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  • gah74
    replied
    aaahhhh....How cute...a kitty cat crawling through the remains of the World Trade Center. Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

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  • Althea Forhan
    replied
    Type of pictures that should not be taken:
    Rescue workers digging, etc.
    Anything dead
    Anything dying
    Photos with people giving eachother "bunny ears" etc.

    Type of pictures that could stand to be taken:
    Mourning Dove sitting on piece of debris
    Wierd rock shaped kind of like a badge
    Kitten you found wandering around that took a liking to you and is now sitting on your lap

    Trying to be optimistic,

    Althea

    Leave a comment:


  • HAZ1MAT
    replied
    I just ain't imagine anyone thinking it was respectful to take "I was here" pics at the WTC site.
    Man o man- if you are in the city visiting- take those kind of pics at the Statue of Liberty, or the Empire State building...but imagine how you would feel if you were a family member of any
    of the victims and saw pics like that being taken. How freaking insensitive- to place your need for a pic to show you were there
    over consideraton towards those who were directly affected by this tragedy. Bernadette

    Leave a comment:


  • FF 13 50
    replied
    I understand what you are saying completely but i must admit that when i went in New York i did take pictures. I had the same thoughts i felt wrong about taking the pictures i was thinking this is probably one of the biggest and saddest tragedys ever to strike our nation, and i was a part of that day in history by being there. To say i should show more "respect" for my fallen comrades, I don't think i was disrespecting them at all, its not like i took of to the newpapers to sell them. those pictures are for me and me only and i look at them everyday. I think my overall actions during the event speak better then one certain thing i did there. Just by driving there from western pennsylvania and dropping everything to help my fallen brothers says more then enough. Maybe i was being young and stupid by doing that. I honestly have nothing to show from my trip up there except my constant insomnia and bad memories, but maybe in 40 years ill be able to sit my grandkids down and show them the pictures so they can truly see how this tragedy affect everyone directly, but i assure you i have nothing but respect for FDNY, even before 9-11-01.

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  • Grit
    replied
    I think 'nuff's been said, and we are all due our opinions, just one point of order: our host tropper told us WTC was released as a crime scene a few weeks ago. It surprised me, if it's true, but I heard it myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • hctrouble25
    replied
    I don't feel that any firefighter outside of the FDNY should be having their pic taken anywhere near Ground HERO. As for those within FDNY..I say let them grieve in whatever manner they need to in order to get through this horrible time. We are not to judge them...we are to support them in their time of need. If you are not an FDNY member then respect this site for it is a grave of our bravest heroes...not a local tourist attraction. God Bless.

    Leave a comment:


  • gah74
    replied
    I agree with NozzleHog....Why be discreet? After all, YOU guys are doing us all a favor by having YOUR picture taken in front of the pile, so everyone can see that YOU were there...without those pics their is no human connection. Say CHEESE...

    Leave a comment:


  • NozzleHog
    replied
    I stand by my support of Pvt Stray Dog's original statement. And again, it's those Disneyland, "tourist's posing" type photos we're talking about here.

    What I hear is a lot of people trying to rationalize or justify doing whatever they want to do by making statements like:
    "Well, it's OK if there are no family members around." (How the hell are you gonna know who is who?)
    or "It's OK if you're discreet about it." (In other words just sneak a quick snapshot or two and hope nobody sees.) Those very statements say "It's not something I'm proud of doing."

    I wasn't there for the Civil War, don't know who took what photos, where or when they took them. They say time heals all wounds but this just happened, it is very much an open wound. The WTC site is a crime scene and there are bodies still in that pile of rubble you're using as a background for your snapshots!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grit
    replied
    Billy - you made me think I should have added to my post above, to ask your host or at the checkpoints before taking any as well - they should know if there's any family around that could be offended by any pic taking.......

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  • Chaplain41
    replied
    DaiMon, sorry I didn't list Civil War battle sites implied by whatever fair game meant, but I'm just expressing my personnel opinion, which by the way the right to express was guaranteed at battle gounds like Normandy. If somebody wants to take pictures while digging for victims continues, that's really not up to me to decide. If anyone has a say about it, it would be those who's family members are still entombed there.
    I agreed with Pvt. Stray Dog and that's all I have to say about this topic!

    Leave a comment:

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