The "NEW" Firefighter Safety Issue

[hot DAMN]

There are various articles circulating around the internet, and currently even on the top of this website about how firefighters may now think of themselves first and/or may not carry out orders the way the should be carried out for fear of their own lives. This is TOTAL rubbish. How irresposible of anyone associated with the Fire Department to say something in this vein. I will **NOT** become less aggressive or change my tactics now that this tragedy has occured, to do so would be dis-honoring our fellow firefighters and the reasons they died.
For years our brothers and sisters have died in the line of duty fighting fires, and still we run into burning buildings. As far as I am concerned, I feel prouder to be a fireman. Prouder to be ABLE to risk my life to save my fellow man (or woman. To HELL with those that say other wise

[FD55]

I think that's bullsh*t. If a firefighter is worried about risking their life or second guessing going into a fire, they shouldnt be a firefighter. Im not even a firefighter yet and I understand that. I pity the people who work with a person that is second guessing going into a fire after what has happened on 9-11. I agree with you hot Damn.

God Bless The Fallen and Their Families

[distchief60b]

I agree...we CAN NOT be less aggressive...

But..this incident should drive home the message that at any moment any of us can make the ultimate sacrifice.

So..my advice on changing our ways...
>Dont become complacent
>Remember to give your family a hug each morning or night before work and say...I love you! And....make sure you are quick to let them know what is going on as soon as you can after major events.

Otherwise...business as usual!

[enginecappy]

Gotta agree with you 100% Hot....I'd find it hard to believe that any true firefighter would show any apprehension. Those making those statements need a suit and tie 9-5'er. We're in this for the protection of lives and property, in that order. After all, we're the Fire Department, we show, we do our job. We don't stand around.

[E229Lt]

Hmmm

[51Truck_K]

Right back at'cha Brooklyn K.

[ffguy083]

hmmmm... I gotta disagree to some degree here. When 300 firefighters die for whatever reason, it's important to look at what happened, and to take a look at all the facts. We know very little, and certainly not enough at this point to make such rash statements as have been made.

I think if a plane runs into a building I'm gonna be a little less agressive.

But... my wife asked me the other day, that knowing what I do about WTC, would it change whether I went into a commercial building, and more specifically a high rise. My answer was probably not. I'm certainly going to pause a moment and think about some things I might not have thought about before (jet fuel's effects on high rise construction), but I'm still going in to do my job. I do it because I love what I do, not because of some hero mentality, or whatever.

So, bottom line is I am going to look at the final reports when they come out, and see what happened, how did some firefighters survive? Was there something some might have done to increase those odds? Was there a point in this incident in which there was nothing left to do? When the 1st bldg collapsed, did the work of firefighters save anyone else?

I don't have those answers, so I say, there is definitely something to be said for reflecting on devastation, just like we do when 1 or 2 firefighters die. Anyone who looks at the FF fatalities from falling off Fire Engines, and says I'm not changing, I'm gonna keep riding the backstep, because it's what I'm all about.

Sorry, that's what some of this sounded like to me, and hopefully I made some sense in my post.

[hot DAMN]

The job of a firefighter is to adapt to ever-changing situations and overcome, not shrink back into the shadows. How dare Firehouse.com speak for me or any other firefighter in this respect.

[webteam]

Just to clarify the misinformed previous post, the article in question was written by the Associated Press and ran in papers across the country. We would be remiss not to post it, as it is part of the entire story as a whole. Please read the entire story, not just the headline, as it does clarify no one is suggesting not saving lives.

Thanks
WebTeam

[pak-man]

I think amybe we will take a diferent look at what happened, but there is not much to change, But the FIRST rule of firefighting is firefighter safety comes first. If a house is fully involed and there is no change of going in and somebody tells you theres someone in there does that mean your gonna be the stupid idiot to go in on a suicide mission. Think of our lives first, its sad to make that dission some times but it has to be done

[gfdtrk4]

I am speechless!?
229: My thoughts exactly....I think!?!?
More thought before posting(for everyone) would be good???
I'm thinking......


Be Safe!

[ChiefReason]

hotDamn:
I believe that the article was written in a retrospective vein. It submits that changes will be made. Change is inevitable. Though I too believe in an aggressive approach to SOME incidents, I don't think that we should be lemmings running off the edge of the cliff, either. If I was your back up guy, I would certainly want you around for the next one. Your brazen comment about not changing your ways worries me. Don't be narrow-minded or you'll get blind-sided. Take a step back, re-evaluate and then go forward. I believe that not learning from 91101 would also be a disservice to those who died.
Stay safe.

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: Chief Reason ]

[FireCapt1951retired]

What I think about this article is that there will be a look at procedures. This look at procedures in my opinion should not relate to the WTC were MANY lives were in danger. The FDNY saved THOUSANDS of those lives. They did exactly as their oath and chosen career required. They gave their lives for fellow Americans and human beings. It's what we do, live's need to be saved and we will continue that goal, regardless. I know I would have to go in if lives were at stake. I really don't feel I could do anything else with out feeling dishonor in my heart.

[E229Lt]

Much of what I’m reading hear sounds like the posters are trying to say “I’d never back out of a fire/situation, no matter how bad things got”. That’s what you’re TRYING to say. But the way it comes across here is, “I’ve never been in a REALLY bad situation, but I’d like to think I won’t S**T my pants if I ever am”.

With every loss of life, comes change. If a fire occurs and the civilian loss is 300+, I assure you, changes will be made and laws changed or amended. With the loss of 343 firefighters, many people will take a long look at current policies and try to assure the utmost safety of our members while not compromising our mission.

If the media tries to assume the outcome of those policy changes and put them in print today, the only people more foolish than the media, is the firefighters who take their words to heart instead of waiting for word from their own superiors. I never took one order from the New York Times and I’m not about to start today. Chill out brothers.

[FireCapt1951retired]

E229Lt,

I agree with what you're saying. My point was that if there is that chance that a life can be saved, I would have to go. I've been doing this 29 years and have had some close calls, I feel I know when to back out but I would still have to give it my best shot.