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  • #16
    Spent a lot of time in both (3/4 & pants )
    Worked at many fires in both ( fairly busy truck [ie: above the fire]) and never been burned . (of course above the fire floor with the protection of a hoseline within a block or so of the fire )
    I prefer 3/4's
    I have to, and do, wear pants.
    And WILL until I am told I no longer have to!
    (under quiet protest)

    [ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: gfdtrk4 ]
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

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    • #17
      Cap,I noticed you said 10"boot.Would you have suffered the injury in a pulled up 3/4?For informational purposes only.T.C.

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      • #18
        I wish I could go back to the old days of truckie shoes and levi's but then I wake up and remeber it was just a dream. I have been burnt wearing just shoes, I've been burnt wearing 3/4 boots pulled up, and wearing them down. That never stopped me from using them for over 15 years (10 in the truck wearing shoes, 5 in the rescue wearing boots ). What will always be in my mind though was looking at Timmy Stackpoles legs after we pulled him out of a collapse a few years ago, even though he had on bunker pants and leather boots, he suffered terrible burns. I think that if any of you could have seen this you would be running (not even walking fast ) to get yourself a set of bunker gear. If he didn't have them on he would have died (sadly he was one of the brave souls who did pass away at the WTC). I think the bull s--t story about heat is a load of crap, i am far from some perfect physical specimen and i probably go to a lot more fires than most on this board and probably older than a lot of you also and the heat build up factor while present just doesn't get in the way. We owe it to ourselves and to our families to protect ourselves with the best possible protection avalible. This said I am in no way attaching or second guessing any other department or individual for what it is that they may do, I am just expressing my beliefs based on years of experience.
        bob g rescue 2 fdny

        [ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: rescue2bob ]

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        • #19
          what I don't understand how can sffd not wear bunkers? isn't that in the nfpa guidlines. I mean all this gear has got to go through testing and approval and then IF you want to wear its fine. I must be missing something. Also the weight is the last thing I am worring about in a fire. I would rather have the extra protection, even if it is a little warmer. My uncle went into a fire a while back becasue someone said there was a baby girl in a house, he went running in and didn't have his gloves on, and almost died in a backdraft that was in the next room. This was before nomex was popular but thank god he had his air pak on or he would have died. remember the first rule is firefighter safety not if I look good in bunkers or if its hot.

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          • #20
            The entire state of Califoria wore wool pants until the early 90's. Injury rates were lower there than any other state. That includes SF, LA, LA County, San Diego, Sacramento, etc.

            Wool pants, leather boots (they never used pull up rubber boots), nomex coat and helmet worked just fine. There never was a case that could be made injury wise against that gear. Crews got in quicker and had a good sense of their surroundings. Lots of studies have proven leather boots were better than rubber. Other studies have proven body core temepratures stay lower as well.

            Obviously, the gear weighed a lot less and the outfit did not hold the heat of the typical turnouts many wear. Turnout pants were only used at night by some firefighters, certainly not all.

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            • #21
              Lewiston2Capt....you're right...I got a little agitated reading the post. I should have just have considered the source and let it ride. Some people just love to stir it up. But if it was real, well, we were all young once and we learn from our mistakes.....at least if we want to keep doing this for a living. Take care and be safe.....

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              • #22
                did anyone see that episode?, I didn't get to see it. I think my friend taped it, I'll try to watch it tonight.

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                • #23
                  REscue 101

                  In answer to your question...I imagine not.... Long long story....but I got burned because I was not following proper safety procedures... I was stupid....and should have had the proper protection on.

                  I will say that I have worn 3/4 boots when I first started in the service in 1971 and I have experienced steam burns on my legs from hot water or trapped steam. Also...I have had friends who were burn in @#$%@#$% places by steam.... That my friend is no fun!
                  09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                  ------------------------------
                  IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                  "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                  BMI Investigator
                  ------------------------------
                  The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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                  • #24
                    First Rescue 2 Bob,Glad to hear from you and you're in one piece.I'm physically probably not quite as good shape as you but I too got a lot of years in.If properly managed heat can be dealt with but a lot of Depts aren't good at it.Agree with most of your findings but as I tell the Recruits this isn't a user friendly business.Don't get me wrong I love what I do,but my health is due in no small part to paying attention to the small details.Cap,I know about Leroy(lobster) syndrome,but in 3/4 you could feel the heat coming on quicker and anticipate changes.Because of this, the conversion to full gear allowed me to know when conditions were gettin' bad,something that is harder to get the new "kids"to comprehend.T.C.

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                    • #25
                      Rescue2Bob - any word on Pete Lund?

                      Thought you guys looked great on Bravest, very professional.

                      Stay Safe

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                      • #26
                        ccfire,
                        What is the source of your info about California. I know for a fact that LA city and county used bunkers before the 1990's. As well as Fresno, Sac., etc. just curious.
                        Craig Walker

                        Union Strong...Union Proud

                        An Irishman is the only person in the world who would walk over 12 naked women to get to a bottle of Stout.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          firemedic53

                          Its all good. I too got agitated. Then I remembered who was doing the talking.

                          Rescue2bob
                          Good to hear you are still with us. My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

                          To everyone, In my post I in no way ment to imply that the way we do it here is the right way. I think it is the right way for us. Everyone stay safe out there.

                          FTM-PTB-EGH
                          Shawn M. Cecula
                          Firefighter
                          IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Here's a little clarification for you:

                            ALL SFFD firefighters are issued 2 sets of full turnouts. (coats and pants) along with several all wool uniforms. The idea being that we should never have to wear contaminated gear.

                            During the day, most of us choose to respond in our wool pants and coat. Not only is this lighter and easier to get around in, but it affords us a tremendous advantage of getting out of the house much, much quicker. Right now, response times is SF are under 4 minutes, and less in most areas.

                            At night, most uf us choose to wear the bunker pants, considering that this is the faster choice of the options when getting out of bed.

                            With a tall/thin build, I have difficulty sheading heat to begin with. But if you require me to put my turnout pants on over my wools-- i'm gonna overheat before we even get to the scene. And to think of stripping off the wools before we jump into the bunker pants-- fuhgetaboutit! Dont even go there.

                            And no, I don't know of any injuries directly related to the wearing of only wool pants at fires. But I do know a few citizens that are happy we got to their house as fast as we do.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I believe than at argument can be made against turnout pants. They do cause more physical stress and heat related problems. I know Boston is examining their policy regarding pants.
                              To use the argument , though, that you have never heard of a jake being injured because of not having pants is ridiculous. There are firefighters across this counrty, New York City and Newton , Ma. to name two, who may possibly had avoided death and or catastrphic burns if they had them on.

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                              • #30
                                My source. Cal OSHA and having been a CA fire chief during that time.

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