SFFD and Bravest

[truck12tillerman]

To those who are not San Francisco Firefighters, don't criticise our department unless you know more about it. There is alot to be said for not having to wear turnout pants on a fire, especially if you are a truckman on the roof. Why do most Firefighter LODD occur in recent history? You guessed it: Heat problems and Heart Attacks. How can you avoid some risks of these? Wear less and lighter gear. In my 17+ years in the FD, I have yet to see someone seriously burned due to the lack of turnout pants. This is why you see such places as Boston doing studies to see the effects of such a policy.
And to the Explorer from PA, I am glad you are involved in the fire department at a young age, however, if there is one thing I can impart to you: KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!! If you were to say something like that to a veteran firefighter, you would probably get left at the station the next call, if not kicked out of the firehouse. Just a little bit of advice for your future in the Fire Department.

[Lewiston2FF]

Take her easy there truck12tillerman. I think our explorer friend is attempting to stir up trouble. I do believe that someone by a similar name was causing trouble on the forums a little while back.
As far as turn out gear goes, I can see where you are coming from, but I also know being from the western NY area that full bunker gear is the way that it is done here. Not saying that it is the best way, but that it works for us. I also understand that your uniform pants are wool and flame retardent. That will work for you guys. I personally wouldnt want to go into a fire in the pants that I am wearing right now without some additional protection from bunkers. I have the utmost respect for everyone that does this day in and day out, running multiple jobs a day. Keep your heads up.

[nonameFF]

Originally posted by truck12tillerman:
Why do most Firefighter LODD occur in recent history? You guessed it: Heat problems and Heart Attacks. How can you avoid some risks of these? Wear less and lighter gear.

Actually, being in better shape and eating better will reduce the heart attack issue, not wearing less gear.

What LODD are you speaking of regarding "heat problems"?

Are you aware that the NFPA and OSHA disagree with you?

[1261Truckie]

To truck12tillerman, Lewiston2Capt and everyone else who has reacted to the explorer's comment, I hope you don't mind, but here's my comments:
First off, most of the comments being made are being made by FIREFIGHTERS and it doesn't matter if we wear bunker gear, canvas coats and pull up boots or denim jackets with workboots. We are FIREFIGHTERS and are all engaged in the same activity (i.e. the preservation of life, protection of property and the extinguishment of fire).
Secondly, it doesn't matter where you are a FIREFIGHTER (New York, San Francisco, Pennsylvania, Idaho or any place else) all fire departments and all FIREFIGHTERS do a great job.
Thirdly, FIREFIGHTERS may have discussions amongst themselves regarding specific tactics, equipment and operational considerations. We can agree or we can disagree, but we will always respect each other and we have earned the right to have these discussions.
Fourth, we will answer questions posed to us by the public in general and explain why we do what we do. We will sponser scout troops and explorer units for the purpose of passing along our knowledge and experience.
Finally, we should not have to entertain comments made by someone outside of our family regarding a department which he has no knowledge of. Personally I would have ignored the little twerp's comments. I would not have dignified what he said with a response.
Truck12tillerman, I do however applaud and agree with your response.
To the PA explorer, you can share your thoughts when you have earned the right to do so. NOT UNTIL THEN ! Walk a mile in our shoes first.

Let's be careful out there

Jim Boyle (aka 1261Truckie)
Captain - Porter (TX) Vol. Fire Department
(Former FDNY Auxiliary - Ladder 132 "In The Eye Of The Storm")

[PFDE4]

I remember watching a TV show on firefighters at affects of working in full turnout gear. They used, I belive, an Austin or Houston firefighter, in excellent shape. They had him on a treadmill fully suited up. During the test they monitored his HR and Temp, to make a long story short, wearing full turnout gear his HR exceded his alowed maximum rate. The testers stated it had to due with his inability to shed heat.

I'd like the option to wear 3/4 boots again

[PAVolunteer]

Point of Clarification - the FF Explorer idiot is from New York NOT Pennsylvania ... just trying to clear my good state's name.

Stay Safe

[Grit76]

12tiller:

To start, I wouldn't even respond to the other idiot's tirade.

That having been said, I must comment on pants. I'm sure capt Drennan from FDNY would have disagreed, had he lived. I'm also sure my PGFD friend disagreed with you between the time he got his nuts burned off in 1987, and the time he died a few months later.

All due respect here. I lived in SF for a while 20 years ago. I realize you're the only east coast FD on the west coast. I mean that in a good way........

[firemedic53]

I'm sure that SFFD isn't laying awake nights worrying about what the Explorers at "the hall" in east armpit NY are thinking about them.

[FFMcDonald]

I have to make an observation here...

Why do people equate being an "East Coast" Fire Department to being dangerous??

I am not sure that is what Grit was alluding to - but that's what it seems like. I apologize already if the assumption was wrong.

That having been said - I wear bunker pants - I like wearing bunker pants. I like the protection that they afford. I think that some of these complaints about heat related stress are true-- but they are manageable. Much more so than the burns that can be recieved by not wearing bunker gear. How is it that all those Southwestern US deparmtments handle it (Las Vegas, Phoenix,LA, Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth... etc...)--- yet other departments in much more temperate climates ( San Francisco, Boston) have a problem with heat related injuries.

If you don't want to wear bunker gear - that's your call. I'll agree to disagree.

[tfogle]

BTW truck12tiller, (hello from the other side of The City)

We have been averaging 1 working fire a day for quite a while now. And not long ago there were 3 firsts, a second and a third all on one day! Don't let some fool from outside get under your skin, not too many people know how hard we really work (not even most the citizens.) You and I both know it brother- I just hope that I can have as illustrius a career as you.

Keep the faith!

[Rescue101]

I love bunker vs 3/4 debates having spent approximately half of my career in both.Yes bunkers afford you more time in pre eminent flashover(high heat) conditions.Yes they drive your heart rate and body temps up(FACT) on the 3/4 side you feel the heat sooner so you might not go quite so far into danger.You can shed heat rapidly.There is absolutely no contest in maneuvering.Being totally encapsulated in the new issue allows you to go deeper which is not always a good thing.Training and EXPERIENCE count a lot in injuries or lack thereof.Our area burned pretty heavily in the 70's and I spent quite a lot of time in Portland on third alarms in 3/4 and never got burned.Haven't got burned in full gear either but some have.I'm not real sure a Government mandate(unfunded) is a good way to run your Dept.,some discretion should be left to local authorities.T.C.

[distchief60b]

hmmmmmm..not sure where to start here...but..

I will say that not wearing bunker pants on an auto fire situation caused me to experience 3rd degree burns to my leg from the top of my 10" boot to my thy on about 50% of my leg.. missed 50 working days....

Now...i am living in fla now and you dont have to tell me about the heat. Wearing and not wearing has pros and cons...

Just consider the new ensembles available that "disipate" heat...such as a caldura thermal liner with a stedair 2000 vapor barrier.

[Grit76]

Mac:

I said I meant it in a good way.

Mainly referring to aggressive interior tactics. If that means dangerous too you, Oh well.......

[Lewiston2FF]

firemedic53 Just for clarification it is West armpit NY. And if anybody read my post I think this is a troll trying to start ****.

[Malahat27]

I should start this by saying I come from "the more northern climes - Western Canada". However, my Unit's policy is that unless it is a domicile First Responder call, full bunkers is the norm. Summer time here can be pretty sticky hot and humid, and as a result of that, depending on the current situation, and individual taskings, the IC or Safety Officer will give direction for us to remove our coats and most times also our helmets. Bear in mind that the immediate task at hand will dictate whether we are fully geared up or not. Example, bush fires: likely pants with helmet, as long as we are wearing long sleeved shirts. Structure fires, full gear only for the interior guys, and likely the exterior guys too.
The IC and Safety Officer will always have the final say on those situations, and even though we are a small crew (average #'s: 12 members), they will always try to rotate us out of the high activity jobs and into rehab for water, rest, etc.
Finally, I guess, is that the job we do is dangerous enough without adding in environmental or gear problems -- I mean who else runs into a fire when everyone else is running away? Well that's my soap box speech for the day.