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NYPD E.S.U.'s and FDNY Rescue Co.'s - what's the deal?

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  • captstanm1
    replied
    fdnyrr...sorry...i was not clear in my statement.

    I knew they trained in the FEMA and USAR stuff and that is how I heard there were sour grapes... Did not mean to suggest you train with them routinely... My appologies

    Thanks for the information. Stay safe.

    Leave a comment:


  • mark440
    replied
    What do cops and firefighters have in common?

    They all wanna be firefighters!

    Leave a comment:


  • FDNYRR
    replied
    Resq-14...I am out a while now, unfortunately, and can only give you an idea of how the garbage back there started it's flow. One thing remains static though, every time the FDNY Rescues train in a new element and get "A" tool to do it properly...the PD rushes right in and demands the same..and gets "5" new tools? So can I tell you............in truth, no! (IF) the FDNY is mistakingly notified by the 911 system of an extrication, it responds and if first in......will operate. We have high-angle equipment up the wazoo........but by now I bet the PD has it too! Soooooooo...........in esesence, your guess is as good as mine.

    Oh by the way this for Captstanm1: Any Rescue Firefighter that trains with ESU..is totally by mistake. The only time the two agencies are working together is in the USAR-FEMA TEAM, because the FD was "ordered" to do so.
    What's our grip? We train constantly to be proficient........they get turned out of the Precient for patrol, with the gear, and half the time never bother to see if it's working.
    Last edited by FDNYRR; 07-11-2002, 05:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kyle Wickman
    replied
    This reminds me of my first day at recruit school. One of the instructors asked the class why there where fire departments? "To put out fires" most people said. The instructor said "because the police department can not do it all." (He was a police officer by day, and a fire instructor by night.) I always got a kick out of that.


    By no means am I putting down law enforcement it was one time thing that I will never forget.

    Leave a comment:


  • Resq14
    replied
    Thanks for the info FDNYRR.

    That made things as clear as mud!

    Seriously though, can you give a quick overview of how it is "supposed" to work, on, let's say an extrication or high angle rescue?

    Or if it's wayyy too much to even try to explain in writing, hehe, I can definetly understand that too.

    Leave a comment:


  • FDNYRR
    replied
    Station 2 from Texas, had as close an explantion, including accuracy then you other guys who are guessing.

    Having served 20+ years in both Rescue 2 & 5---------I can tell you this relating to your thread. NYC does have a response protocol, which came down as a direct result of physical interaction called the Battle of the Badges, that was 1989-NY time!

    I can tell you this also.....the PD in NYC have such Political Clout, that protocol or not, they do as they damn well please. This in fact is where the problems begin, and they are in Main between the NYPD's ESU and FDNY's Rescues. The beat cop is highly respected by most Firefighters, and most beat cops will and have come to the aid of Firefighters before, and I'm sure in the future.

    The "High-Profile" incidents bring out the press in droves, there is no question, adding responsibility to your meneu might get you more $, and this is the bottom line in the disputes.........FDNY does it as they've always done, and PD is hoping to up the ante' and break paradody with the FD by claiming an increase of responsibility. Sound crazy? Ask any ESU Cop how long they've been around...I'll bet my pension they'll say way before FDNY Rescue. It is a Document that can be requested easily enough........it is a 1924 FD Order, asking Rescue 1 to train a contingent of Police Officers to become their ESU, and to "help" us eliviate some of the emergencies in NYC.
    The "help" turned out to be----the FDNY has no jurisdiction, without PD's approval. Thanks to former Mayor Koch (NYC)..........I know your thinking I'm full of crap, check it out!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • BucksEngine78
    replied
    To supplement my earlier post:

    Remember, there are only 5 rescues in the city. So if your specific question is do the rescues and ESUs run the same calls, the answer is not really. The only rescue that regularly responds to pins is Rescue 1 in Manhattan. The primary responsibility of the Rescue Companies is fire assistance and technical rescue. Along with the Squad companies, they also handle HazMat incidents. When a FAST team is activated on the fireground, I believe the designated truck company joins the rescue to perform truck work (Search and Rescue), while the squad is supposed to pull a line. Obviously, the ESU units have nothing to do with any of these tasks outside of technical rescue. Aside from this, the only place I've ever seen ESU and fire companies operating simultaneously is at an extrication, and that only involved a truck company and an engine company, not the rescue. Hope this helps.

    **I'm not actually with the city, so I'm not sure about the accuracy of all of this, it's simply my understanding of the situation**

    Leave a comment:


  • Adze
    replied
    Rescue2Bob might now a little bit better than our E40/L35 friend (not to say he doesn't know).

    There are many guys from FDNY here so I'm sure it is a matter of time before one of them rings in to answer our questions.

    Leave a comment:


  • captstanm1
    replied
    I heard that they train together and the intent is to supplement each other. But...Unsubstantiated rumors have told me that they do not get along at all and there is a "turf war" continuously going on.

    Perhaps our friends from Engine40/Ladder35 can help us with an answer?
    Last edited by captstanm1; 07-09-2002, 12:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BucksEngine78
    replied
    Most pin jobs go out as "EMS/PD" runs with the FD called in to assist, depending on where the accident is. Closer to the firehouse, fire run, farther away, EMS/PD. The ones in the middle are the most fun, since it basically ends up as a race to the scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattqc99
    replied
    I read or heard somewhere that on MVAs, it was the NYPD's ESU that responds with the jaws. All their trucks, the small F-350 up to the big Macks, have a full set of jaws.

    Leave a comment:


  • STATION2
    replied
    FDNY and NYPD both do SOME of the same rescue type work. However don't confuse the issues. Just because ESU carries some rope gear, does not make them the preferred agency for scaffolding incidents just like an Engine Co. is not the preferred city method of answering a disturbance, but when they call it in or flag them down, they do what they can until NYPD arrives for example. Now, any FDNY guys out there correct me but, there is actually a decree of some sort from the city on what type incidents the lead agency is. For instance, In a conversation with Deputy Chief Dunn (Ret.) at my career station 4 months ago, FDNY got the in charge agency designation for ALL building collapses due to one fateful collapse and the successful rescue of a female from the buidling after hours and hours of digging. Up to that point building collapse incidents hadn't been formally decided. Keep in mind history though also. When New York was burning years ago, FDNY was covered up with fires. I have had guys up there when I rode with them tell me they didn't have time for pin jobs and the like. They were taking up from one fire and going to another. I'm sure that they made them back then, but the emphasis, as said by the old heads in FDNY I spoke with, was on the fires. So that meant somebody had to do them. As for pin jobs, the city doctrine is first agency to arrive is in charge. No matter FDNY or ESU, first one on scene and with their Hurst Tool on the car has it. NYPD has the lead on all diving/water emergencies, FDNY has the lead on all haz-mat incidents, NYPD is in charge on all jumper calls, etc. Now keep in mind, just because ESU REP's carry SCBA, Haz mat suits, etc. doesn't make them the ONLY agency that is sent. ESU has been carrying that stuff long before 9-11 and with some reason due to their "gun runs", "EDP's", etc. There is redundency with both agencies, but in a city like New York, there is always something going on. As for their realtionship, I do not know first hand, but have heard a few stories about some "strained feelings" between the two agencies. An excellent source to clear up this issue, aside from FDNY personnel, is the FDNY Reference Manual which I believe is in its 4th or 5th edition currently. Very good info on what your asking about and FDNY in general and specifically. Accurate enough to actually be a book for recruits at the Fire Academy. Just my thoughts on the issue. And guys on the forums, if I am incorrect in anyway, please feel free to correct me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Resq14
    started a topic NYPD E.S.U.'s and FDNY Rescue Co.'s - what's the deal?

    NYPD E.S.U.'s and FDNY Rescue Co.'s - what's the deal?

    I was doing some research on both of these a few nights back, then I read the recent 9-11 article on Firehouse.com about the problems faced between NYPD and FDNY on that fateful day. One quote from that article:

    "On that morning, the Police Department's elite Emergency Service Unit sent teams into both towers. Trained in rescue tactics, the E.S.U. police officers often tackle the same kinds of work as firefighters."

    Funny that I was wondering about these just yesterday. Anyway, my question is this. How do ESU and Rescue Companies interact? Who gets sent to the "rescues"? Is it a PD call, or a FD call, or both?

    It seems as though they both carry a lot of the same equipment, and that they both have a lot of the same training, so I am very confused as to how rescues are handled in New York. Does there have to be some criminal element involved for PD to take the call?

    Any insight would be appreciated!

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