NO AMERICAN FLAGS IN MIAMI UPDATE

[Captain 12]

NO FLAGS NO PAY, IN GOD WE TRUST ON MONEY

UPDATE From my post on allaeged firefighters that will not ride or drive a fire truck with the AMERICAN FLAG ON IT.....

YES, They are muslim's

NO, in my heart they are not firefighters but they get a pay check from Miami FD...

And if that was not bad enough get this.!!!!!

The Channel 7 news crews went back to the fire station for more info...

and talked to a fireman and that's when defecation realy hit the fan... the firefighter was African/American and bad luck would have it now its' a Black thing... just to junp on the band wangon...

QUESTION DOES MIAMI DADE FIRE RESCUE HAVE ANY REAL FIREFIGHTERS AND IF SO TELL THEM TO BRING OUR FLAG HOME.....

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Captain 12 ]

[Jaldridge]

Well America, we now have a choice. We sane, sober-minded citizens have sat back long enough and let politically correct ideaology pollute our country. Now, when it really counts, are we going to stand up and say "Enough!" Many Muslims love this country. Not all Muslims show such disdain for our country, but those that do should find another one and quit soaking up the freedoms that the U.S. freely offers. Most African Americans are hard working, honest citizens. Not all African-Americans (after last Tuesday, I would hope that we are all now just Americans)endeavor to make every issue one of oppression in order to lay claim on a "victim" status that entitles them to special treatment, but those that do should realize that we are all victims now. And it is not a time for victims to use that label as an excuse to deny personal responsibility, but rather to take responsibility for the fate of our country as it faces one of its greatest challenges ever. Well, America, what will it be?

[jasonnremtb]

as i set here getting ready to go do what i love, i have always thought i would give my life without question for a brother/sister because i have always thought they would do the same thing for me. i think i have found that that rule no longer holds completly true. someone that won't stand or ride with you while old glory flies high they have no right to crawl side by side me or you in a fire, or crawl inside of a magaled piece of steel with us and my TRUE brothers and sisters i believe this is a true disgrace to the fire service, this is a disgrace to all of those whom have fallen in the line of duty and had there casket drapped with that beautiful piece of red, white and blue cloth that so many have died for. i believe just as strong in freedom of speach as any other red blooded american but how can there be freedom of speach without old glory? is there any greater county in the world? HELL NO! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND IT"S FIREFIGHTERS!nullHELL NO! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND IT"S FIREFIGHTERS

[truckie_ladderco_147]

They wont go on a rig with the American flag on it?My God what is this world coming too??????I do so hope these members come here and see these posts.I for one agree they are not fit to crawl down that long dark hall with us.Before anyone takes me to task here is why.
This country was founded on ideals,ideals our fore fathers fought and died for.These people thought so much for this fledgling country to put their names on a piece of paper that if they lost would be their certain death.This paper formed the ground work for this nation,and gave us our freedoms.
Now we have Irish -American,Afro-Americans,Arab-Americans,et al.and I for one am sick of it!! I am American,my background is Scot,Irish,and German but damn it I am an AMERICAN I am sick of those that want this and that just because they are a this country or that country or whatever.If they do not want to be on those rigs that fly OUR flag at our time of mourning then there is the door dont let it hit you on the way out!Is this discrimination?No,it is discrimination of my free speech!I am enabled by this countries laws to free speech and that is my right to fly the flag.
Now I dont want to get to political and all but we lost people there of every major political group.We lost people of every major religious group.If this is not a time to be united then I dont know what is!
If those were my sons(even if I was from another country)I would be ashamed!I would respect another countries culture if I was living there as a citizen.To the gentleman that was interviewed by the media,Are you just trying to make a name for yourself?Plus to all of those concerened,How dare you if you were born in this country and are so shallow at this time to put up a baby style temper tantrum!My God have some common sense!
Any who disagree with me are welcomed to e-mail me.And Miami Dade,get some better people to represent your dept.

[axman51]

If they wont get on a rig that is displaying the American Flag then I would hope that administration would send them home, It is insane to think that a firefighter would put his or her job in jeopardy like this, like it or not they are Americans and they should act like it or be sent back out of the country!

[FBCFR-Res2que]

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING!!!I have never had a problem with anybodies beliefs or religions. I always thought that was one the GREATESTthings about this country! A great melting pot of people, I have always enjoyed meeting new people and leaning from them. But hearing this I am at a loss for words.
Just like the terrorists that have brought us this terrible tragedy, I can't for the life of me understand how you can live in this country and not
LOVE IT !! And could still hold it in thier hearts to do these terrible things or act like a bunch of DAMN BABIES!!!
I can only hope that the good Lord will touch these people and help them with their hate and warm their cold hearts!!

[mark440]

This is just plain HORSE SH*T! When you signed on with a public agency you wrote your Rights away while you are on duty. They can tell you how to cut your hair, they can tell you what to wear, they can tell you (for the most part) when you will eat, sleep, do inspections, and so forth. By damn, if they tell you to get on that truck (no one has to tell me, they have to hold me back) then you better well get on that truck, flag or no flag. If you don't have any American decency then just take your sh*t and go home. I don't want to see you, I don't want to hear from you, I don't want to smell you. I firmly belive in free speech and all that, but there are just some things you don't mess with, and the flag is one of them! I don't think you are fit to represent any sort of Public Service. What the hell kind of religion prevents you from adoring and loving that star spangled banner? I want to know, then I'll practice my Freedom of Speech (off duty of course) on your sorry asses! Anyone have any sore feelings towards my remarks then please feel free to e-mail me directly and we'll discuss it.
FTM-PTB-EGH

Stay safe,

*Mark

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: mark440 ]

[Crash Cradock]

While I am not a Muslim, I have studied the Koran some, way back when I went through Theology classes. I can remember no where in the Koran it states one of the faithful may not associate themselves with a particular country or symbol there of. These bozos are just looking for attention & to stir some poopie!

If they are so offended by an American Flag flying on the Apparatus they have the freedom of choice to not ride! Most fire apparatus is owned by the local governing body, would they have us take the flag down at the city court house too?!!

I think the Miami Dade Chief needs to "grow a set" & tell these jack asses it's a general order the flags will fly so ride out & shut your trap, or go work in the private sector! This is a public service profession, not a private enterprize, our rules, regulations & S.O.G.s are laid out by elected officials & the duely appointed representatives there of. Either follow them, or find something else!

Would these self indulgent jack asses refuse to work the rubble piles at the WTC site because there are American Flags flying there? I know the chief of my department would not stand for this kind of demoralizing self indulgent act, especially now. Miami's chief needs to quit hiding under the bed every time some selfish jerk threatens a lawsuit. Stand up to this kind of legal terrorism & bounce these bozos

Freedom of speech & expression are a fine thing, but do it off shift when you are not under the boudries of a SWORN OATH TO PROTECT AND (here's the binding duty part) SERVE. Yes, SERVE the public & that includes riding on an apparatus the majority of the public likes to see flying the American Flag!

Another interesting note; the Koran also condems the slaughter of non-combatants in a jihad. Unarmed citizens not attacking or directly threatening the faithful, while considered "the unfaithful" are considered to be non-combatants.

[Adze39]

It sounds like it is time to have a good ol' fashion sh*t kicking party!

[Grit76]

Thanks for the update cap

Al I can say is I'm glad I'm not down there.

[Jeff Hendricks]

Ship those bastards out a here. They have no business riding an engine. Set an example with these Arse holes. Boy that p*sses me off.

[tfd603]

It is simple to me. If a person will not stand and fight for this great country, and be proud of all we have and lives that have been lost to see that we remain free and remain the greatest nation there is. My answer is Pack up and get out. Dont let the door hit you in the back as you leave.

Just the way I feel.

God Bless America, and God be with all that have suffered losses.

[LtStevieB82]

Just read this after reading the first post. Dammit, now I'm really p-o'ed!
To make it a racial thing is un-freaking-believeable!!! A symbol of oppression? Hell, in so many countries they would not even be able to express themselves in this way, yet because of who we are and all that our flag symbolizes, they can be just as asinine as they want to be. That's oppressive?

We as firefighters are more than just men and women doing a job, we are members of the uniformed services!!! These uniforms we wear represent the good of America. I had believed that Miami should just dump these guys behind a desk, but if they refuse to ride because of the flag, well who needs them?!?

Our job is about saving lives. If these idiots are all about themselves and not the greater good, then I sure as hell would not want them on my crew. How could I trust someone with that attitude with my life and the lives of my men? I think you all know the answer to this one.

For the rest of you, stay safe, be smart, and God Bless us all.

[toneloc177]

again, two words -

BLANKET PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!

*** UM! Kick their punk asses to the curb!!!

[Ladder Man]

These low-lifes make me sick!
Here is an article from the Miami/Hearld

Published Friday, September 21, 2001


IT'S A FREE COUNTRY
Rally round the flag? Not always
BY SARA OLKON, ADRIENNE SAMUELS AND LISA ARTHUR
[email protected]



In an Opa-locka firehouse, two Miami-Dade firefighters take exception to the American flag flying from their truck.

In a manicured subdivision in Pembroke Pines, a white-robed effigy of Osama bin Laden swings from a tree.

Both expressions of a personal belief drew anger from some of those who saw them. But the freedom to express an opinion is at the very heart of the American Way.

Waving powerful symbols -- like the flag and an effigy of Osama bin Laden -- gives people a sense of purpose at a time of powerlessness, said Thomas Steinfatt, a University of Miami professor specializing in intercultural communication.

``There's a real frustration of not being able to get back at, or even see a way for your government to get back at, the people who did this,'' Steinfatt said. ``I think part of it is a genuine sorrow and to show oneness with the people who were killed and with the people working in the rescue effort.''

In the case of the flag, however, the symbol doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Miami-Dade firefighters Jim Moore and Terry Williams objected Saturday to climbing aboard a fire truck that sported a large American flag. The two are not Muslims, as had been widely reported. Their objections have more to do with seeing the flag as a symbol of oppression.

``When asked as to why the American flag was taken off the truck, Moore responded by saying that the flag was offensive to him,'' their supervisor, Lt. Michael Simon, wrote in a memo about the incident. ``Williams agreed. Moore stated that the flag was a symbol of oppression to the black man.''

Williams wrote in a statement that the incident had been blown out of proportion. He wrote that he and Moore removed the flag because it blocked their view and because of their ``political view about the country's situation.''

Steinfatt said that's not an uncommon reaction.

``Black Americans perceive a lot of areas of discrimination that are not evident to whites,'' he said. ``To some, the flag represents white America, not all of America.''


MANDATORY DISPLAY

Nevertheless, in response to the incident, Fire Chief Dave Paulison ordered all county fire engines to carry the American flag as a symbol of unity, national pride and patriotism.

The American Civil Liberties Union backs the chief's decision, saying that displaying a flag on a fire truck is not the same as forcing a firefighter to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

``While individuals certainly have a First Amendment right to an opinion, it's hard to say that the display of the American flag on the truck is attributable to every firefighter on the truck,'' said Randall Marshall, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Lawyers told the manager of a Pembroke Pines subdivision that legally they couldn't stop a homeowner from putting a display on his front lawn.

Stringing an effigy of bin Laden from a tree in front of his Pembroke Pines home seemed patriotic to Jose Gonzalez.

``We're all American; that's what's important,'' Gonzalez said. ``A lot of people in the U.S. don't know what a great advantage freedom is. The only way to really depict [how I feel about bin Laden] is to show a death.''

One neighbor, however, complained to the police.

``I'm afraid of what this will mean to my children,'' said the woman, who asked not to be identified. ``They walk to school every day past this house.''

Tom Evans, general manager of the Silverlakes subdivision where Gonzalez lives, said Gonzalez would be asked to remove the display.


NO DEMAND

``But we're not going to demand [it],'' Evans said. ``If we start demanding, it'll be an issue of freedom of speech. . . . At this time of grief and anger, we don't want to go out there and antagonize people, for the obvious reasons.''

Steinfatt said that's a genuine concern. Everyone should think twice, he said, before striking an inflammatory pose. In the cases of the firefighters and Gonzalez, Steinfatt said he defends their right to express themselves, but questions the wisdom.


TIMING QUESTIONED

``They have absolutely every right to feel that way,'' he said. ``However, it is probably not an advantageous time to be pushing that. Do you really want to assert your rights just to assert them when it is going to upset people?''

Three houses down from the Gonzalez residence, Frank Shober Jr. spent eight hours drawing a chalk mural of the Statue of Liberty, the U.S. flag and the World Trade Center's twin towers on the asphalt in front of his house.

``God bless N.Y. and D.C.,'' he wrote in block letters.

If the weather holds, Shober plans to draw a dove at the top of the mural for peace.

Shober's mother thinks the two displays on her block are ``quite a contrast, I guess.''

``Everybody's different, and they have different expressions,'' Karen Shober said.

Herald staff writer Beth Reinhard contributed to this report.