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  • IAFF ONLY???

    I was just wondering if what I heard was true that ONLY IAFF Members (Ie Paid firefighters) would be called to help out in NYC. I have heard from non union steel workers that were turned away for the lack of the union card.

  • #2
    My brother in law was turned away because he was not a union iorn worker. The sad part is thats what he does all day. He works for a city in New Jersey.
    This space for rent

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    • #3
      What you heard is NOT true. Many of the rescue workers are from departments all over the New York area, and MANY are volunteer. My brother is a union Sandhog, experts at tunneling, and even they were told they were not needed, so lets lay off the IAFF vs. volunteer Bullsh*t for a while, huh?

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      • #4
        IF (underline "if"), this is in fact true, it is a very sad statement that the continual petty and childish stance of the union vs. non-union wouyld actually exist during a tragedy such as this. I believe that the individuals repsonsible for making this a "union only" job be exposed and held accountable by all.

        There is no relationship between unionship and quality or competence in performing a task !

        Joe

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        • #5
          Gentlemen, just to clear some things up. There have been some volunteers turned away due to loss of command and control. Also with the steel workers its not a union vs non-union issue. Its the fact that if you have a steel workers or whatever workers union card, they are using that as indentification that you are what you say you are. Same as a IAFF card. They know we are career firefighters who went through and acadamy, and have a minimum amount of hours of traing that included collapse safety. You cannot control nor know what level of training a volunteer firefighter is at. These guys are shot, they are in shock. Many of us are. Lets not lose our sense of understanding because of our own pride it hurt. I had to explain this to some of the vollies in my combo dept. Many understand some don't. But that is just the way it is. And this only has happened recently (sometime around friday afternoon or night) because with the weekend they could easily have over a million volunteers running around that area.
          If you can, money will also help. Blood also. God bless you all who helped. God Bless America.

          And for you who planned, did, and cheer this. You destroyed us physically and emotionally. I lost friends. I thought I would not make it home on Tuesday, and I was helping at my friends and EMS Coordinators ambulance company who is first due to the WTC. I hope you all rot in hell. I hope your kids rot in hell. and I hope your kids kids rot in hell. You are animals. So you will be hunted as animals. I do not pray for your soul. You do not pray for my god. I pray they do not kill you, and that you will not kill yourself. I want you to suffer. Not die at that hands of bombs, cruise missles, or your own sword. I want you to fear, like thousands feared. And someday you will.

          --------------------------------------------
          The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

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          • #6
            It's not true,we just had non-union personnel return from ground zero.There is only so much room to work and there are many poeple there now.T.C.

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            • #7
              I will only say that I hope and pray this is not an issue here. Death does not differentiate in terms of IAFF and Non IAFF or volunteers. We are one boyd...we are a brotherhood, we are brothers and sisters.

              Like others...I too want to go and help...life one bucket, lift one piece of concrete, pour water, take a blood pressure...anything to help.

              But as firefighters we must remember that this is a MASS Casualty incident of such magnitude that we have never dealt with one like it. Personnel Accountability and safety of others is an issue. If everyone that "wanted" to help descended on the scene that would be more catastrophic. Hang in there...if they need more help...they will help. Remember....these are the immediate family of FDNY...they want to bring their own home and will at first resist help from outside.

              God bless all of us
              09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
              ------------------------------
              IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
              "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
              BMI Investigator
              ------------------------------
              The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

              Comment


              • #8
                A. THIS IS FDNY... MOST OF THERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE VOLLIES IN LONG ISLAND AND UPSTATE NY ASWELL.

                B. THIS IS NOT A IAFF OR NON IAFF MATTER IN NEW YORK THAT ALL BS. THERE ALL JUST FIREFIGHTERS WITH OR WITHOUT UNION CARD

                C. It's a IC call. only...
                they don't what any freelance firefighting.

                IC is having a hard time keeping there own men in tow...

                And if they need help, they will and have allready called for it,

                I know there are many Fire dept waiting to go but are not needed, and when they are called it's for covrage not grond zero...

                In long Island they have so many fire dept's it's not funny and do a great job... by the way there all vollies out there...

                bottom line, They don't what any nutjobs there, PAID or Volly....

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                • #9
                  It was less of a iaff vs non iaff and more of an fdny vs non fdny. Officially no volunteers were being allowed in period, only fdny/nypd. Unofficially, if you got to the right checkpoint (purely by luck) they would let you pass w/o even batting an eye.

                  As for getting onto the pile, that was just a matter of picking the right area to enter ground zero at (again, purely by luck). If you happen to be standing there when they needed an extra guy up top, then it was you.

                  As for freelancing, just setting foot into nyc was freelancing. No one knew what anyone else was doing, there was no accountability, and battalion chiefs from fdny (who incidentally had post-it notes over their helmet fronts to identify their new batt assignment) didn't even have the energy to attempt it.

                  Finally.. I would just like to say that FEMAs official position on saturday (which is when they finally arrived) to close off the scene to fdny personnel only was disheartening, disappointing, disrespectful, and completely ridiculous. My union card is the same color as thiers and I have every right to try and pull my brothers from that pile of rubble as they do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    > Officially no volunteers were being allowed in period, only fdny/nypd.

                    Then explain to me how there are fire departments there from Long Island, NY State, NJ, and CT?
                    IACOJ Agitator
                    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am hearing these complaints way out here in Ohio. I don't beleive it is a union/non-union issue as much as it is a logistcs matter. Anyone who has attended some of the training given after the Oklahoma City bombing will recall that at times, they were overwhelmed with manpower. This in fact crated more problems than it solved. Of all the departments on Earth, FDNY would probably be the best suited one to deal with this problem with less need for additional manpower that all others. We had a group of volunteers rush out the New York on Tuesday without being called or asked. When they got back, a member of their department was bragging to me about them being there. After I showed him some of the press releases from FDNY about NOT sending people, he changed his tune.

                      Things have come to better order around here now. The Red Cross and FEMA are keeping track of those who are willing to go to help. We're sitting tight to wait for the phone call. If it comes, we will go. If it doesn't, we are still busy passing the boot and doing whatever we can to raise releif funds.
                      Richard Nester
                      Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

                      "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mike-
                        you went?
                        Some guys who work part time here went...They're on 3 unit at 13's...Vingle and a couple other guys...How was it?
                        My opinions only.

                        AGS-SGA 091101

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Remember there are what about 14,000 FDNY and that they like the rest of want to take care of there own.

                          Don't get me wrong I had my bags packed and was checking into where to contact when I found out that they did not want anyone else to come to NY or DC.

                          This was hard to take but I accepted it. Now as far as the union/non-union, paid/vollie crap this has gone on for to long. We all do the same job. Some of us are just not fortunate enough to live in towns or areas that can afford to pay their firefighters. Enough said about that.

                          Remeber we are all Brothers and Sisters.

                          Stay Safe.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Come on ladies and gentlemen.....We lost an unknown # of brothers and sisters.

                            This is a trivial post...

                            Yes..some out of the area folks have gone there. Most of them responded immediately or with in 24 hours while everything was in pandamonium and little control was managable on the incident.

                            Now they have taken control and their primary concern in personnel safey and not losing another soul. It is all about Incident Command, Span of Control, unity of Command....with safety as the #1 priority.

                            Those that still manage to slip through are not even getting in at the main access point apparently. Listen to them talk on the TV...the get by some remote location because they are dressed as firefighters.

                            Stay home...pay tribute in other ways...wear their patches, fly the flag, raise money...do something else. I too want to be there very much...but to just jump up and drive there is ridiculous. They still have tremendous access problems. Resist the urge to jump in....

                            It is not volunteer vs paid or union vs non union........!!!!!!!!

                            Besides...look are Worchester..(Again) The members of NYFD want to bring their own home for the last time. If they need us..they will put out the call.

                            Be safe..and god bless....
                            Stan
                            09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                            ------------------------------
                            IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                            "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                            BMI Investigator
                            ------------------------------
                            The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This should not be about anyones hurt feelings at being excluded. This is about helping our brothers in any way we can. If they want us to help we are there for them. anyone who can't handle that needs to do a little growing up.

                              Comment

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