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D.C.Few won't let women get pregnant

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  • #61
    CA, HC, xcheif, try to look past all the politics and feminism and bull and see the very very base of this issue: Don't break the rules, esp during the probationary perdiod! As long as people cling to the issue of women getting pregnant and men not getting pregnant, we will forever be able to scream "sexism!" Really people, humans have been on this earth long enough for us to get past the most basic function of all species: females give birth. I'm with Buck: A lot of you aren't giving women much credit. I'm a chick (in case that wasn't aparent) and I'm a lot more insulted by CA saying "accidents happen" than anyone else saying "keep your legs shut." While I don't necessarily agree with the ladder oppinion (to each her own), wtf does "accidents happen" mean? To quote eminem (uh oh, i know quoting him will get me some flames! flame away!) "what? she tripped, fell, landed on his d**k?" All the people insinuating that women can't help but get pregnant are making a serious dig at my intelligence as a woman. That's like saying men shouldn't be dropped as probies if they hurt their back playing ball with their friends because "accidents happen" and men are too clumsey to help it. And can we pls try not to totally ignore that fact that a pregnant woman can't do her job! To those of you on the other side of this argument (i believe that would be CA's side): keep saying "sexism." It's one of those red flag words that ppl hear and automatically agree with you for fear of being called politically incorrect. Try to get some actual reasoning behind your argument, and maybe this (intelligent) female would be a little less insulted. Talk about sexist: CA saying women are too dumb to not get pregnant. What is this, the 17th century?
    "...you're such a gentle soul, it's killing me to know, when will i see your face?" -Vince Gill

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    • #62
      Originally posted by PA Volunteer:
      IT IS UNSAFE TO TRAIN TO BE A FF WHILE YOU'RE PREGNANT. End of Story.
      Says who?
      The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

      Comment


      • #63
        no_name_FF:

        Are you serious? Have you attended a fire academy, either paid or volly? Did you actually engage in any physical training regimen?

        Can you honestly say that the rigorous training involved in learning the job of firefighting would not put a woman's baby in jeopardy?

        Please tell me you're joking. Please tell me you're not that dense and/or stupid.

        You want to know who says? Well, Chief Few for one. And as long as he's the boss, probies are gonna hafta listen.
        "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

        Joe Black

        The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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        • #64
          Bucks, I realize you know everything, but where did you get your medical degree from?
          The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by BucksEng91:
            You want to know who says? Well, Chief Few for one. And as long as he's the boss, probies are gonna hafta listen.
            Not if he can't back it up!
            The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

            Comment


            • #66
              no_name_FF

              Please give me a break!! Suppose pregnant FF trainees are allowed to participate in the training as you advocate. I guess the next thing you will be trying to tell me is that the city will be liable in the event of miscarriage, birth defects, or other pregnancy complications because of the training these female FFs participated in. Of course the punitive damages will run into the many millions of $$ because after all, the FD should have known how unsafe it was to put extreme physical demands on pregnant females. They are of course in the business of providing EMS and are therefore familiar with the possible complications of any pregnancy.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by PyroSlayer:
                I guess the next thing you will be trying to tell me is that the city will be liable in the event of miscarriage, birth defects, or other pregnancy complications because of the training these female FFs participated in. ... the FD should have known how unsafe it was to put extreme physical demands on pregnant females.
                And you got your medical degree from where? Obviously you are a doctor to give such an opinion.....
                The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by PyroSlayer:
                  First you would have to find a female FF who is actually interested in having intercourse with a member of the opposite sex.
                  Now that's enlightened. You want anyone here to believe you aren't a sexist?
                  The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    DC Firefighters I want to know where is your integrity. Every time I read a post from most of you it is totaly different from the articles I read concerning the events that you are complaining about. I did not read any thing saying that a pregnant woman would be terminated. I did read that a woman would be able to continue training or return to regular duty after her pregnancy. I would not want one of my sister firefighters to suffer a miscarraige on the drill yard. Would you? Also for an ex-chief to feed in to this JUNK is sad. Stand up and start doing the right thing and let's respect all brother and sister firefighters. Remember, most of the time when people think there is a problem the problem is usually them.

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                    • #70
                      PyroSlayer

                      First you would have to find a female FF who is actually interested in having intercourse with a member of the opposite sex.

                      I know some.

                      CaliFire

                      Talk about sexist: CA saying women are too dumb to not get pregnant. What is this, the 17th century?

                      Logic, can't use logic, liberals don't understand logic. All they understand is what they percieve as fair.

                      no_name_FF

                      quote:
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Originally posted by PA Volunteer:
                      IT IS UNSAFE TO TRAIN TO BE A FF WHILE YOU'RE PREGNANT. End of Story.

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Says who?


                      The following information is excerpted from "Reproductive Hazards of Firefighting I and II," Melissa McDiarmid, M.D., et al., American Journal of industrial Medicine, 1991.

                      The job of firefighting presents many potential hazards to healthy reproduction. It poses physical hazards such as drastic temperature variations, extreme and unpredictable physical exertion demands and psychological stress. Firefighters may also be exposed to biological or radiation hazards. The fire environment may also produce a wide range of chemical agents, including irritant and asphyxiant gases and other toxins.

                      Human reproductive health as it is affected by the work environment is a relatively new area of study. The clearest connection between an environmental agent and adverse reproductive outcomes for both men and women is in the case of ionizing radiation, which is not a common hazard for most firefighters. Prolonged exposure to high ambient temperatures, however may also have a detrimental effect on fertility and pregnancy. High heat exposure has been related to infertility in men and may be linked to neural defects in the babies of exposed mothers.

                      Chemical agents in the fire environment are numerous and unpredictable. The toxic effects of fire smoke have been tentatively linked to a number of physical problems, including respiratory disease, coronary artery disease and malignancies. Many chemical agents encountered in the fire service may also adversely affect reproduction. Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, acroliene and other aldehydes, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen chloride, nitrogen dioxide and benzene are all commonly produced in fire environments. Research shows that all of these compounds may have detrimental effects on reproduction. Pregnant women and their fetuses are especially affected by carbon monoxide exposures.

                      Although much more study is needed, existing research suggests that both men and women are vulnerable to reproductive toxicity in the firefighting environment. In addition, the potential hazards to developing fetuses pose special concerns for pregnant firefighters.
                      It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by no_name_FF:


                        And you got your medical degree from where? Obviously you are a doctor to give such an opinion.....
                        And you, No Name, are obviously an idiot.

                        If the little sign on roller coasters says that it's not safe for a pregnant woman to ride them (and I'm sure someone with a medical degree somewhere has agreed with that). Then it ain't too much of a stretch to say that training to be a FF is also not safe for a pregnant woman.

                        Or what Mongo said.

                        Why are you arguing this point anyway?



                        [ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: PA Volunteer ]

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                        • #72
                          What the f*ck? I can't believe the amount of incredibly stupid, moronic losers on this forum.

                          Hey, no name ff:

                          Read my last post on this topic. I assure you no one needs a degree in medicine to discuss this topic or refute the ludicrous things you say. Says who? Says common sense. You can only make an argument out of things that an arguement can be made out of. An argument can not be made out of all things. These are the things that are irrefutable and not up for debate. Even stupid people understand this if they have common sense.

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                          • #73
                            no_name_FF

                            A measly 30 seconds of research on altavista or google would have got you some of the info you want.

                            From http://www.wfsi.org/WFS.reprosafety.html?

                            "Various factors commonly or occasionally present in the firefighting environment may:
                            • Make it difficult for male or female firefighters to conceive a child
                            • Be linked to birth defects in the children of firefighters of either sex
                            • Harm the development of a fetus carried by a woman active in fire suppression
                            • Create a toxic-exposure risk for the nursing infant, transmitted through breast milk


                            Exposure to extremes of heat has been linked to male infertility, and possibly to birth defects in the offspring of exposed mothers and fathers. Many of the numerous and unpredictably occurring chemicals in the fire environment (or at a hazardous-materials incident) may also adversely affect reproduction. Carbon monoxide exposure may especially affect pregnant women and the developing fetus. One study has shown the offspring of male firefighters to be at increased risk of congenital heart defects. In addition, nursing mothers who are exposed to certain toxins may pass these chemicals on to their infants."


                            And check this one out...

                            "Employers may, if they choose, put policies in place that treat the pregnant worker more favorably than the worker who is injured off duty. While providing non-hazardous assignments for pregnant workers may strengthen the demand for light-duty jobs for injured firefighters, the 1987 Supreme Court decision clearly permits the employer to do so in the case of pregnancy even where it chooses not to otherwise."

                            Does that fit your definition of sexism?

                            And then we got this one that I'll comment on...

                            In designing a maternity leave policy, the following points should be considered:

                            Assure that a woman can not lose her job as a result of becoming pregnant...


                            Which DCFD has done.

                            ...The arbitrary firing of an employee due to pregnancy is illegal under the Pregnancy Discrimination Act...

                            Which DCFD isn't doing.

                            Nonetheless, it is worth considering what would happen in such cases as as probationary firefighter, or one in recruit school, becoming pregnant, or what would happen if there were extended complications to a pregnancy.

                            Which DCFD is doing.

                            BUT!

                            If it ain't too dangerous for a baby in the womb to have his/her mother breathing smoke at the academy fighting fire, why are you liberals screaming about secondhand cigarette smoke and anything else?

                            [ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]
                            It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              A quick post to clear something up that alot of you seem to be misinformed about. This person is not a firefighter, nor was she in a fire school. She is in an EMS program. Not that it changes the situation a whole lot. I think also alot of you miss the point that the adminstration of the DC Fire and EMS Dept. may be violating federal law with this rule. It is not Chief Few's rule, but just like everything else he will get blamed for it. Well, he's the chief and it comes with the territory. On top of that it was one of his underlings, on the EMS side, that suggested this young lady get the abortion to keep her job. There is something just ethically wrong with telling a rookie in that if your a chief officer. Right, wrong or indifferent this is another scar for an already scarred dept.
                              Remember: All fires go out and all bleeding will stop!!!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Firemedic1122, it's hard to believe someone would make a suggestion that a woman should get an abortion. NO I can believe it. If it was a statement by a supervisor or anyone else they should be held accountable and recieve disciplinary action.
                                STAY SAFE!!!

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