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Leather Helmets - Cairns-vs-Paul Conway-vs-?

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  • #46
    One more vote for the Phoenix TL-2 Leather. I have had mine for two years and love it. I have seen a fair amount of fires and it is holding up great. No paint problems like the cairns. And is the lightest leather you can buy and that includes the Paul Conway leather as well. If for some reason I could not wear my TL-2 I would wear either a cairns 1010 or 1044 with the defender eye shield. Or a cairns 1000 would be the best but you cannot get them right now because of the war. Everyone has the one that works best for them and I have tried on them all and the Phoenix was just the best for me. Try it and see for yourself.

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    • #47
      How about that Phenix helmet is UGLY. I saw it and immediately noticed the lack of detail in the leather and the fact that the leather looks tanned and not painted.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by giweff View Post
        One more vote for the Phoenix TL-2 Leather. I have had mine for two years and love it. I have seen a fair amount of fires and it is holding up great. No paint problems like the cairns. And is the lightest leather you can buy and that includes the Paul Conway leather as well. If for some reason I could not wear my TL-2 I would wear either a cairns 1010 or 1044 with the defender eye shield. Or a cairns 1000 would be the best but you cannot get them right now because of the war. Everyone has the one that works best for them and I have tried on them all and the Phoenix was just the best for me. Try it and see for yourself.
        The Phenix is a piece of junk. The guts fall apart, it sits high on your head, and I don't think it is lighter. It also has a different look to it. Its almost not a "traditional" traditional helmet. Definately wider. But the main thing is that the guts to the helmet are cheap and fall apart after a year. I'd rather have a couple of minor paint chips than the inner parts of the helmet to fall apart. On that note, I used my TL2 for 1 year. The tanning scrapes off. The leather is soft and when it becomes wet it almost crumbles.

        Just my thoughts. I know some out there that swear by this piece of crap.

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        • #49
          N5A vs N6A

          The N6A actually has an additionional lexan outer dome directly underneath leather that is not built into the N5A. Both have a layer of high-temperature resitant urathane foam and then a ABS inner liner.

          http://media.msanet.com/NA/USA/FireH...ull3600-04.pdf

          This additional impact protection on the N6A and approved eye protection (goggles) are required for it to have NFPA approval. A N6A without goggles is OSHA but not NFPA compliant.

          I myself like the fit of the N5A over the N6A.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ejfeicht View Post
            The N6A actually has an additionional lexan outer dome directly underneath leather that is not built into the N5A. Both have a layer of high-temperature resitant urathane foam and then a ABS inner liner.

            http://media.msanet.com/NA/USA/FireH...ull3600-04.pdf

            This additional impact protection on the N6A and approved eye protection (goggles) are required for it to have NFPA approval. A N6A without goggles is OSHA but not NFPA compliant.

            I myself like the fit of the N5A over the N6A.
            Thanks for that link. Funny that one of the biggest dealers of them makes no mention of that HUGE difference.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by WD6956 View Post
              Thanks for that link. Funny that one of the biggest dealers of them makes no mention of that HUGE difference.

              Actually if you're referring to TheFireStore they mention the difference and specifically highlight it in the picture as shown below.

              N5A

              An engineered impact cap of high-temperature rigid urethane foam over an ABS inner liner. Provides advanced thermal, impact, and penetration protection. Designed to increase protection at the sides where it’s needed most.


              N6A

              An engineered impact cap of high-temperature rigid urethane foam with a tough Lexan outer dome and an ABS inner liner. Provides advanced thermal, impact, and penetration protection. Designed to increase protection at the sides where it’s needed most.

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              • #52
                Okay, two things;

                1. Cairns still makes and sells the old style front holders, yet they put the newer style on the leathers instead of the old style like on the pre-MSA leathers. Does this have to do with better protective qualities on the newer ones from an above impact?

                2. How did Morning Pride manage to get NFPA Bourkes, yet no other company has been able to?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Hexxus View Post
                  Okay, two things;

                  1. Cairns still makes and sells the old style front holders, yet they put the newer style on the leathers instead of the old style like on the pre-MSA leathers. Does this have to do with better protective qualities on the newer ones from an above impact?

                  2. How did Morning Pride manage to get NFPA Bourkes, yet no other company has been able to?
                  1) Cairns has used a couple different front holders out of the box. The one that most helmets come with now are the traditional thin brass ones with the red FD in a maltese. A few years back I think they were all coming out with a thin brass one with a silk screened eagle that was really ugly...which probably helped the sales of the carved brass eagle.

                  2) From what I've seen there is nothing particularly special about MP bourkes, they look a little thicker than Cairns' bourkes, but not by much. Not sure how they got it passed NFPA while the other companies have not.

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                  • #54
                    One more vote here for the Cairns N6A. I sent them a beat-up N6A that I bought for show, but needed some parts; they couldn't tell me which pieces I needed over the phone, so when I sent it to them- they lost it! I got a brand new helmet out of the deal.

                    I ended up buying a Paul Conway shield for it. The first one arrived with crooked lettering and when I installed it, the leather puckered. I haven't been impressed by their work.

                    As for guys that have been raised on plastic helmets- I gotta say this. I've used both. The leathers beat them hands-down. Maybe it's from when I got started with my N5A1 back in the day, but I still don't like plastic as much as leather.

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                    • #55
                      The bourkes MP sells are compliant to the 500 degrees for 5 min NFPA test. that is all. The same test NFPA rated goggles must pass.

                      The NFPA still does not recognize Bourkes as any form of eye protection

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                      • #56
                        ..................
                        Last edited by jasper45; 01-02-2009, 11:12 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Helmet balance

                          Hey guys and gals, can I add in with another question? I have some neck issues including arthritis I am finding my current Cairns helmet is killing my neck. I understand a lot of the weight talk however how about balance? Any recommendations on a good balanced lid? Thanks

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by bcubby0099 View Post
                            Hey guys and gals, can I add in with another question? I have some neck issues including arthritis I am finding my current Cairns helmet is killing my neck. I understand a lot of the weight talk however how about balance? Any recommendations on a good balanced lid? Thanks
                            Weight comes with quality. The Phenix TL-2 is lighter, but don't expect it to hold up like a Cairns will.
                            Career Firefighter
                            Volunteer Captain

                            -Professional in Either Role-

                            Originally posted by Rescue101
                            I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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