Drafting

[kenmcc]

Does anyone know if drafting is possible with a piston intake relief valve on the steamer port?

[CAP182]

drafting is possible thru a jaffry valve i know there are other brands you can not. your best bet is to check wit the manufacture of your valve.

stay safe!

[kenmcc]

Thanks, a neighboring Chief had problems loosing his draft. He asked me and I couldn't answer. We don't carry anthing over three inch hose right now and the whole area is working toward LDH. Thought we better fi

nd out as much as we can first.

[chief14]

We had some challenges drafting throught the relief valve but it turned out we need different gaskets in our adapters.

[ArmyTruckCompany]

A few years ago, we managed (after much cussing and improvision) to get a draft through an AWG Piston valve. Now- I pose the question: Why would you want to??? After doing the calculations, we were only able to get approx. 950-1000 GPM through it (with a 1750 pump!!!!!) Thats big enough reason for me to remove the valve alltogether from the steamer when drafting!! It only takes a few seconds, and besides....If you're drafting at a fire....Chances are she's gone already!! So a few more seconds ain't gonna hurt!

[kenmcc]

We live in a ruraL area and we have a very limited number of hydrants in the area, so we truck most of our water in.
We use port-a-tanks and if you don't have valve on your steamer port, you have to break down the draft to use tank water while waiting for another tender to fill the port-a-tank.
It really sucks to have to pull your guys out because your out of water, when you have 3000 gallons sitting on the ground!

[911WACKER]

I would have to agree with chief14- its possible but you need draft gaskets on your adapters.

armytruckcompany- even if you connect your suction directly to the pump, a 1750 gpm is rated using to steamers not 1, 1250 gpm is about all you can get through 1 6" regardless of pump size.

[kenmcc]

What about HYDRA-SHIELD automatic pumper inlet valves?
Their literature says suctuion hose prime water is retained at the valve when flow is stopped or switched to booster tank ops.
Can this valve tell when you open your tank to pump, or do you still have to gate off your steamer port?

[Dalmatian90]

armytruckcompany- even if you connect your suction directly to the pump, a 1750 gpm is rated using to steamers not 1, 1250 gpm is about all you can get through 1 6" regardless of pump size.

Um, wrong answer. Class A Fire Pumps are rated for assuming a single 20' run of suction with a 10' lift.

Applies at least up into the 2250gpm class pumps Hale makes.

If you're only getting 1250 through a 6" suction, better look at the intake size, etc on the pump.

------------
Our 1500gpm pump does 1400gpm -- through 30' 6" of suction, 20' of 6" piping from the front bumper to the pump, a Chicksan swivel, a butterfly valve, and being wyed into 2 -- 3" intakes (couldn't fit a 6" intake where we needed to to support the front suction).

Add in the 2nd 30' 6" suction to a 6" steamer on the pump (direct on the passenger side, through a PIV at the pump panel) and we get into the 1700gpm range.

A pump rated at 1750gpm with two 6" suctions should be providing over 2000gpm, unless you have lifts pushing 20' or more.

[ArmyTruckCompany]

Once again Dalmatian, thanks for the mutual aid!! I was about to explain to 911 that he better tell that to our 1500gpm pump, as last week when I pumped it for the yearly test, I had approx. 1650 blowin' through her. And the statement about no more than 1250 through a 6" no matter the pump size, well son....I am saying here and now, you're just dead, plain wrong!!! I have been driving (career and volunteer) for over 7 years, and have moved up to 2250gpm through a 6' intake.

911, I am not 100% sure, but I believe that the UL test for all pumpers calls for capacity through 20' of (one single line) at 10' of lift.

[blackb16]

We just completed pump tests on four 2500 gpm pumps all require 3 - 6 inch suctions at nfpa lift to pass.

[Dalmatian90]

Had to stop at the station and look up another bit of trivia on the way home, so I opened 1901 while I was at it:

NFPA 1901 12-2.4.2(c)
For pumps 1500gpm or larger (shall draft rated capacity)through a single suction hose only, or through the number of hoses listed in Table 12-2.4.1(a) attached to one side of the apparatus only.

For 1750gpm, that means either a single 6" or 2-6" on the same side of the truck. Don't see many 1750s with dual steamers on the same side of the truck, so they need to make it through a single 6".

Blackb, now you made me wish I photocopied the chart! But I believe the NFPA standard is to be able to draft with a 2500gpm with 2 8" suctions off the same side. But I could see using 6" day to day since it's probably more manageable for a small crew.

[chief14]

kenmcc- We are able to switch to tank water without a valve and without unhooking the suction hose. We did it by switching before the level got too low in the folding tank but it does require the pump operator to be careful. It gets ugly if you run out of tank water. As long as you are flowing enough water it won't flow back into the folding tank.

[blackb16]

rated
GPM Suction number lift
size of suctions
750 41/2 1 10
1,000 5 1 10
1,250 6 1 10
1,500 6 2 10
1,750 6 2 8
2,000 6 2 6
2,000 8 1 6
2,250 8 3 6
2,500 8 3 6
2,750 8 4 6
3,000 8 4 6

[911WACKER]

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE HAD SEEN THAT CHART, I THOUGHT I MUST HAVE BEEN DREAMING.

BLACKB, THANKS FOR THE HELP>