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What should count as a LODD?

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  • #16
    Point well taken Lumpy.....

    Not sure what the answer is....but...I dont see us changing it anyway.

    I have had two close friends die in the same event. It was due to a combination of errors that led to the tragic death of two young firefighters when they were struck by a train as they crossed an unmarked crossing in Virginia On September 28, 1989. First...there was no address posted at the driveway...and they drove by...going a mile to find a place to turn around...then...when they turned into the driveway, from that angel...the train was not visible arund the curve and they did not stop before crossing.

    They made a mistake...does that mean it is not a line of duty death? I see where you are coming from...but...still....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.


    • #17
      Many nights the most dangerous thing we do is walk across the highway for a pizza. that's why we send recruits. They get the full deal if they get splatted on a pizza run, I suppose. hehehe.

      EKUK: You have a point. At the Wall (Vietnam for the uninformed), there is a service every year for those that died after-the-fact, but from causes like agent orange. It's on Mother's Day. BUT their names are not on the wall. Maybe they should be, I dunno. Does my cousin deserve a purple heart because he had just his voice box ripped out thanks to delayed agent orange effects? I dunno that either, but it's food for thought.


      • #18
        I would agree with the notion that there should be a distinction between LODD, and on-duty death as previously stated, but the question then becomes "what other ways can we differentiate the two? - funds, benefits, etc."

        If someone dies in performance of their duties at the scene of an emergency, or succumbs to injury or illness incurred in doing so, that would be 'LODD'.

        If someone happens to die while on duty, in the firehouse, etc., doing something other than firematic, or job related, that should be an 'onduty death'.

        I tried to make it as vauge as possible, so don't nit-pick, and respond with, "Well, if a guy was climbing a staircase in his firehouse, to get the VCR for a training and fell, . . . "

        These two should be synonimous with respects to procedures for funerals, monitary issues, and respect for a fallen brother firefighter. Everything else can be disputed.

        I'm not even sure if I've making any sense now, so I'll just bow out.

        (Whew Mongo, actually had to think w/ this one. Brain is now fried, stretch a line)
        May God bless all the people and families who have lost
        their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

        "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

        FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

        e-mail always accepted @
        [email protected]


        • #19
          While I do believe in seperating the two, I do thinkbenefits should remain the same... no matter what the cause.
          Hey, it's MY opinion, not that of my department or peers.


          • #20
            Hi Ho, Mongo:
            The pragmatic side of my brain tells me that we want LODD designation so as not to minimize the death of a firefighter. The cynical side tells me that it's a numbers issue. Face it; the safety gurus and lobbyists for fire service funding have been screaming "We are still killing over 100 firefighters a year in this country" for years. They are, of course, referring to LODDs. If we differentiate between death by pizza and death by roof collapse, their argument will lose its strength. Maybe not.
            I think that an LODD occurs when, while performing his/her job duties as defined in their stipulated job description, they succumb to an injury/illness that arose out of or was suffered in the course of their employment. All others would be reviewed for causality-i.e. linked to the job.
            It seems to me that LODD is not about recognition as I believe that it was intended, but about benefits. It's about getting an attorney because their lost loved one wasn't properly trained, equipped or fed OR that their back up guy wasn't properly trained, equipped or fed, causing the death. It's about suing the pants off of an equipment manufacturer because there was a dead battery in the PASS device. It's about settling for large sums of cash, because people get bitter when they lose a loved one. Period.
            LODD and the ensuing funeral brings pause to the bitterness, if only for a brief moment. It allows us to reflect on the reasons that we became firefighters; we re-visit in our minds the scene of the tragedy and struggle to make sense of it. We keep our suspicions, opinions and accusations to ourselves out of respect to our fallen firefighter and their family. We cry as the bagpipes play and we smile as we remember lighter moments. And when it's over, for the reasonable person, LODD is the difference between starting over and college funds for the kids OR it becomes the catalyst for a contentious lawsuit; pitting family member against family member, firefighter against firefighter and Greed against our glorious tradition. How many of you have said "If I die LODD, sue the crap out of Them"? Not many, I would hope but then, we understand!
            Is dying from eating one too many greasy burgers at the fire station different from dying from a floor collapse at a structural? God, yes. In most states, benefits won't be paid if you are engaged in an activity considered non-work such as eating, sleeping exercising, etc. unless it is specifically stated in some form of employment contract.
            I believe that the original intent of LODD has been twisted over the years to where it denigrates the solemnity and sanctity of the ultimate sacrifice into one of profit-taking.
            If I die LODD, keep the blood-sucking, law snakes out of it. My wife will accept with gratitude whatever she is entitled to under existing public policy.
            I will close with two questions:
            1) Whatever happened to the notion of "no fault" and
            2) Why are VFDs hiring drunk monkeys to drive?
            Hats off, Mongo for another thought-provoking topic.
            Visit www.iacoj.com
            Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
            RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)


            • #21
              Some excellent points all around.

              My position...

              No difference in benefits but for record keeping purposes, make the distinction between OD and LODD.

              LODD just has to much of a reverent ring to it to associate somebody wiping out themself and a family when returning to the station after the call.

              But then again, what aboutthe other people on the apparatus?

              Thangs that make ya go hmmmm...
              It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!


              • #22
                While most of us would agree that cardiac-related death should be considered as an LODD, the sad reality is that your Federal Government doesn't.

                They describe LODD as:

                >>Line of duty is defined in the PSOB regulations (28 CFR 32) as any action that the public safety officer whose primary function is crime control or reduction, enforcement of the criminal law, or suppression of fires is authorized or obligated by law, rule, regulation, or condition of employment or service to perform. Other public safety officers---whose primary function is not law enforcement or fire suppression--must be engaged in their authorized law enforcement, fire suppression, rescue squad, or ambulance duties when the fatal or disabling injury is sustained.<<

                The Public Safety Officers Death Benefit is not paid when a fire fighter dies of a heart attack unless there is a concentration of CO over 15% and the CO was the proximate cause of the death or their was a traumatic injury.

                You can go to the Bureau of Justice Assistance website for more info on this program.


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