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  • #46
    When I was 15yrs old I was a FF2 HAZMT-2!! Just because an old chief that had no guts that he left behind him 20yrs ago did'nt want anyone glorify besides his (group of sucks) crew of Lts and CAPTs I was a junior on that Dept. Now that I lead a crew I know when a Jr FF is ready or not so if he is so be it he won't work inside or extricate untill OIC says yes or untill I need another set of hands!! As far as punping a truck!! ANYONE can get water to the end of a nozzle a pump op is someone who can get water maintain water pressure levels and when and if presented with a problem can operate the pump no matter what!!! We have no JRs right now but when we did you're right they worked traffic rolled hose fetched and etc:. When it comes to the wire life or death and that JR is you're only lifeline you better change your tune because old man fire does'nt descriminate..

    And to ENG_Tower FUN AND PLAY????? You would'nt play on my crew you'd be at the station changing channels on the boob tube!!!

    Stay LOW AND SLOW!!!
    TC.379

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    • #47
      Please help I'am 13, in the Sarasota County area in Florida. They dont have any type of Fire Explorer program, It has something to do with insurance, I belive that is unfair, they are low on personal as it is, I would belive they would be glade to have someone to grab stuff for them, Geez, I would be so HAPPY if I just got to watch a trainning, that would make my day. Thanks! Email me at [email protected] if you have any suggestions
      Explorer
      Ladder 111
      Rescue 5
      Squad 288

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      • #48
        Well,I just read all the posts in this thread,cthere was more than once that I wanted to cut in. Instead I was patient and read all the posts and formed my own opinions. Tower, there was a junior in my department that held the same opinions as you, his father was an officer until he suffered a MI at a scene (gone for three min)His grandfather gave thirty + years of service to the same dept.until his untimely death. This junior was keen did all his cert,s for basic ff , first responder trained to drive and operate our # one pumper. all admiral acomplishments for someone his age. now comes the kicker everone became so sick of his immature actions,his well meaning advice to officers at calls that now that he is a full member no one wants him on their attack teams or any where where he might cause any distractions to the reat of the TEAM. It matters not that you have all this training or that you family has a long history with the service. What matters is that you are respected for your opinions and your abilities. Self praise is a poor recomimdation. SHAKE TREES RAKE LEAVES
        J.B.WEIR
        Summerville Vol Fire Dept
        Pride In Service !

        Comment


        • #49
          Captstanm1 wins,

          Although I believe that there does come maturity with age there are always those that take the job seriously at any age, it also comes with experience and the program that I enrolled in at the age of 14 gave me that experience at a younger age. Doing so allowed me to focus on more advanced training once I was older. Now there are some programs that are restricted to only those above the age of 18 and those are jobs in which a person will be operating alone, such as the driver operator debate previously posted. Drivers are not supervised on the fire ground therefore no one under the age of 18 need apply. Again I am sure I said this before it doesn’t hurt the juniors to start learn how to perform these tasks even if they cannot perform them for a couple of years.

          570,
          I never said that classroom training outweighs experience, all I am saying is give them a chance, little by little they will prove themselves, sure there will be bad apples along the way, but there are bad apples over 18 also. But you know if you don’t want JR’s at your station send them our way, we have a tendency of turning them into good firefighters.

          [ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: ggtruckie ]

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          • #50
            I definitely agree with you who don't think that a junior should be able to have a job at the fire ground that carries a great deal of responsibility. Pump operator, back-up line and other important roles require many life-or-death decisions that the firefighter must make in a matter of seconds. Do you think at a teenager that has been in the department for a couple of months is mature enough in his career to make such important decisions? However, there are other task other then fetch that develop these decision making skills that they might need later on when they do have a high responsibility job. Establishing a water supply is an important task that is necessary but doesn't require many big decisions. This is also the case with throwing ladders. Giving the juniors these simple task let them get a feel for the requirements of being a firefighter and the responsibility that is rested upon their shoulders.

            I believe that something must be put in to retain these teenagers once they join the department. If you tell them that they can’t do anything at a fire scene except do menial work once the fire is out such as rolling hose and put stuff away, then they aren’t going to have any fun and they are going to quit. I know that if when I was a junior and someone took away my privilege to ride the trucks and take part in minor task, then I would stop showing up. I wouldn’t become a labor slave that was there just so the others didn’t have to do the dirty work. Looking back, I really learned just about everything that I know from participating and watching first hand at fires when I was a junior a year ago. Classrooms and drill grounds will never be able to give experience like the real thing.

            *This is all just my opinion*
            When In Doubt, Blitz it Out!

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            • #51
              We are in the process of establishing a junior program. I don' think actively fire fighting, or pumping will be in their job discription. I find it hard to believe that insurance could be obtained that would allow juniors to fight fires or run a pump. I have seen some adult firefighters who scare me on the pump, the last thing you need inside is to be worried about who is on the pump. By the same token I believe that any thing is possible, and if it works in someon's dept, then I would say go for it. The thing I dred the most in this job is going to a fireman's wife or a mother and fathere that their husband, son or daughter is not coming home. Trying to tell the parents of a junior firefighter that their son or daughter is not coming home, no thanks I'll plead the fifth on that one.

              Comment


              • #52
                Inferno.......???????

                Where in all these discussions did you see anything that says one of these junior firefighters actively involved in fighting fire has only been on for 2 months?

                Can 21 year old Joe Blow who could not find 911 on the phone (unable to find the 11)in June, gain the knowledge and abilities in 2 months???

                Besides...most firefighter courses (or at least comprehensive ones) take 6 months or more to finish. Then in our department a junior member had to be given and pass an operational practical test to ride.

                WEIR_33?????
                Where do you see that Engine_Tower1 fits your description? Yes there is a family history....and he has been around the fire station since being little....watching and listening... He is simply saying he has trained hard and can do the job. He has confidence in his abilities. He also says he has lots to learn and has valuable experiences from participating and from watching others to learn. Also, it appears to me...from talking to members of his department, that he has the respect of the senior members/full members and they do want him on their lines because he is dependable. He says he knows a bit about pumping because he has watched and listened...but...he says he does not want nor is he ready for pumping....

                I agree that all 16, 17 year old are not mature and that is certainly a big part of it. But...I have seen some 16-17 year olds who have the maturity. One day you are 17...you wake up the next day and you are 18. Does that suddenly and mysteriously make you mature? I think not........ So...each person is different. Some are capable and some are not. Dont group all junior firefighters into a "cant do" category because of one bad experience. I have had the experience of responding to a working house fire as the OIC of the pumper with 2 junior firefighters behind me and I was confident as that line came off and we went in, that they could do the job. It was a good stop...they had the knob...located, confined and extinguished the fire without my intervention. As we all 3 exited the building after extinguishment, I remember looking around at the crew on the back up line (full members) and thinking..."Man, I am glad they werent with me!"

                [ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: captstanm1 ]
                09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                ------------------------------
                IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                BMI Investigator
                ------------------------------
                The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

                Comment


                • #53
                  I live in Venice, and really wished they had a Jr. Program, Nokomis has one, and lets the kids use the pump, Go into the burn building, and tear apart cars with the 'Jaws'. They are volunteer, Venice is paid. At Nokomis, they get to their own gear and all. I think you can use that money on a thermial imaging camera, which is needed, instead of blowing money on Jr. Gear. I 13 and belive that they should'nt be able to do everything
                  Explorer
                  Ladder 111
                  Rescue 5
                  Squad 288

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Thank you Captstanm for reading my posto correctly. It seems that most of the people that post comments in here forget to read all of my posts. They read one post and jump all over me. If you want to try to bash me atleast have a good point to bash me on like E229 did. He corrected me on some of my posts and I appreciate his constcutive criticism, unlike all of the other people in here that just wanna bash on me. By the way H570 how many fire calls does your station run in one year???? Inferno for your infomation this teenager has been in the fire service for almost 2 year now not several months. Like I have pointed out in past posts I wasnt able to function as a real firefighter until I got my FF1, FFII, Haz-Mat Awareness and Ops. I was in these classes for almost 5 months. Until the end of class I was not allowed to participate on any call that was hazardous to life and health.
                    If you cant take the heat then stay out of my way.

                    These are my opinions and dont reflect the view of my company.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Engine_Tower or CaptStan.....Once again....I ask...What are the child/minor laws in Virginia and how do they relate to workmans comp/disability regulations???? Just out of curiosity????
                      "Loyalty above all else, except honor."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Hit a nerve so sorry. Ratchet it back a minite. I don't think your going to lose any sleep over my opinions CAPTSTANM so rest at ease. I'm not being malicious just sharing my views. the JR I mentioned is a good FF and has the skills to advance. I am always including JR,s on calls when ever it is apropriete to do so. On non cridical med calls I oversee their PT. assesments , encourage them when they need it Juniors are the next leaders we have to mold them into the type of ff we would like to be concidered as being. All I,m Guilty of is trying to tell a eager young man to slow down, think more say less, prove with your actions and not your words, You may be the smartest ff on the fire ground but if people are unsure of your judgement you will find your self standing by the curb.My daughter turns 17 in three days. When see was voted in as a JR see sat outside waiting for the results so she could come to the rest of the meeting. She has seen things no 16 yr old should have to see and dealt with it better than some vet,s For her schools job shadowing she worked back shift at the regional hosp. with the paramedic,s doing PT assesments. there is nothing wrong with ambition or pride in you childs accomplishments just dont let it overshadow our responsability to the saftey and training of those who must fill our shoes.
                        J.B.WEIR
                        Summerville Vol Fire Dept
                        Pride In Service !

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Army if you would take a minute to read someof the other posts that i have written you would know the answer to your question. In Virginia the law states that once you reach the certifications required by the Virginia Dept of Fire Programs you are treated like a firefighter no matter your age. Does this answer your question???????
                          If you cant take the heat then stay out of my way.

                          These are my opinions and dont reflect the view of my company.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Ok...again....In Virginia the labor laws say. Minors under the age of 18 can not particiapte in hazardous "occupations" without proper training and certification. They may however train in these "occupations" The Attorney General for Virginia classifies Firefighting (rightly so) as a Hazardous "occupation" and further includes that this means paid or volunteer. The AG further says that in firefighting they can not be in any "responding" vehicle until certified. I beleive the AG even says that you can not be in any hazrdouse situation in includes the prohibition of the use of SCBA until certified. Then the AG outlines some opinions on the federal child labor laws that includes the restriction of using a recognized "burn training building" not an "acquired structure" to traini in and restricts minors with no certifications to "burn training buildings." Once he/she reaches firefighter 1 and other certifications required to get to F/F 1 he/she may participate actively in emergencies relating to fire suppression, vehicle accidents, and hazardous materials as well as EMS (with proper EMS Certs).

                            Insurance covers them completely while training and as any other once certified.

                            Does this once again answer the ?????

                            Weir_33...hmmmm..must have misunderstood your post and certainly did not beleive that you were in support of the program. I appologize. Just seen too much of people talking here that have had none, "0", zilch, notta, ounce of exposure to junior programs and how they work.
                            09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                            ------------------------------
                            IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                            "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                            BMI Investigator
                            ------------------------------
                            The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I am a Junior Firefighter and I know that some of the others on the team are just as good as the Firefighters. Of course people just starting out should not be doing a whole lot but you must expand eventually. When you are trained enough you should be able to do more things. At my fire dept. we are allowed to do many things, once we have proper training. In emergency situations..for example if there is a firefighter down we are allowed to do all that is neccissary to help, unless conditions are too dangerous..in that case no one can do anything. The point being, trained juniors are ready and able to do more then just stand around and watch.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                MMMMMM........

                                Being from Virginia, EVERY DFP trainer that I have spoke with have always said that until 18, you can participate with the classroom part of the class but absolutely no practicals. Guess what, no practicals, no certification!!!!

                                Maturity is the key. Read this thread from top to bottom and the maturity level is as plain as the sky is blue. I could care less if it was the year 2050 you jr's have plenty of time to mature and learn to become the firefighters of TOMORROW. Today and tomorrow are two entirely different dates. Please don't get confused.

                                Army, I don't know the "letter of the law" on FF under the age of 18 but I do know that we have always been told no way, and it is our *** if something happens to one of the juniors if they are doing something hazardous. So we abide by it and the juniors we have understand that and abide by it and there are no problems.

                                I laugh at the ones who say they were FF2 at age 15. In all of the classes I have had with the DFP, the only children I have seen there were the instructors kids, and they were just hanging out.

                                I have to agree with ToneLoc177, jrs have a hard enough time keeping their mouth shut much less anything else.

                                Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but the cold hard truth sometimes hurts.
                                Begin with the end in mind.

                                Be safe out there!!

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