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Does Your Prefire Planning Include Water Supply Required??

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  • Does Your Prefire Planning Include Water Supply Required??

    A few questions for those who do Prefire Planning...

    1.Does your prefire plan include a required fire flow for the structure ie how many gpm are required for the section of the building involved ?? If so how detailed do you go, do you follow ISO, NFA, etc calculations or just indicate where the fire hydrants are located?
    2. Does your department conduct the water supply testing or obtain the info from the water department? Does this data appear on the Prefire plan documents?
    3. Do you include the size of water mains in front of the building and adjacent streets?

    Thanks for your help just starting the Prefire process.
    Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

  • #2
    Yes ? We calculate total flow. And we do the flow tests for the hydrants in conjunction with the water system.

    On occasion we will divide up the flow by wings, but we have very few large structures where that would be applicable.

    My former VFD. which had many large structures, did it quite frequently.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
      Yes ? We calculate total flow. And we do the flow tests for the hydrants in conjunction with the water system.

      On occasion we will divide up the flow by wings, but we have very few large structures where that would be applicable.

      My former VFD. which had many large structures, did it quite frequently.

      Thanks for the reply.

      Any idea what calculations you used, see link below

      https://www.awwa.org/Portals/0/files...LookInside.pdf

      See pg14 for examples same building the flows vary from 1800 gpm to 5000 gpm ! We are thinking of using the ISO calculations since part of the FD ISO rating is based on this formula. Trying to figure out what others use and the pros and cons.
      Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

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      • #4
        We note the flow needed and which pond we will setup to draft from.

        2&3 dont apply as we do not have a water system. Every drop arrives on wheels.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JSJJ388 View Post
          We note the flow needed and which pond we will setup to draft from.

          2&3 dont apply as we do not have a water system. Every drop arrives on wheels.
          I believe the amount of water required to extinguish the fire is based on building construction, occupancy, fire loading, number of stories, square footage of involvement, adjacent exposures, etc regardless if the water is in a pond, a tanker you bring to the scene or fire hydrant.

          So what formula do you use calculate the required water flow??
          Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by InsuranceLCRep View Post

            So what formula do you use calculate the required water flow??
            We're in the same boat, for the most part.

            Required flow can be figured by the NFPA formula: area divided by three times ten (minutes).

            However, only the first 3,000 gallons is arriving on-scene at first. The rest can take up to ten minutes to arrive, during which the numbers in that formula can change (fire growth).

            In my department's case, we will have our engine (1,000 gallons), our tanker (2,000 gallons) first in, followed by three more 2,000 gallon tankers (if they roll them first) and three more pumpers with 1,000 gallons each. At least one of those pumpers will likely be utilized at a fill site.

            After that, the formula is easy. If there are tankers backed up at the drop site, we have enough water. If not, see if there's a problem with the fill site(s) and/or call for more tankers.

            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by InsuranceLCRep View Post

              I believe the amount of water required to extinguish the fire is based on building construction, occupancy, fire loading, number of stories, square footage of involvement, adjacent exposures, etc regardless if the water is in a pond, a tanker you bring to the scene or fire hydrant.

              So what formula do you use calculate the required water flow??
              You are right, however 3 still does not apply. I guess I misread 2. We test our dry hydrants regularly, and our pumps yearly.

              As for supply, we use the same principle as tree68 , if we have tankers waiting, water supply is good. If not, figure out why we dont have tankers waiting.

              Our first due carries 1000 gals, our small tanker carries 2000 gals. We setup the tanker to nurse the engine and drop a tank. Our large tanker carries 3000 gals and will be part of the shuttle. Our other engine will setup and the fill site and mutual aide helps shuttle water. If we are going to have a long lay of LDH, we will use the large tanker at the drop point and rely on m/a for the shuttle.

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