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Automatic aid agreements-Perpetuating the Bureaucracy

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  • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
    Personally I think You are the one trolling here too old.

    Obviously I know what I am talking about.

    And a TCRFA does not impact me I live somewhere else in my retirement. I live on an island now, a ferry trip from anywhere, not exactly conducive to auto aid; Thank God.

    You don't know me at all too old, quit pretending otherwise. That just shows the weakness of your argument.
    Oh we all know your kind all too well. I'll bet you never brought one cost cutting measure forward when you were getting paid on the job. But now that you are just another tax payer suddenly you are an expert on fire department operations and cost savings.

    Yeah we know all about you. Open mouth ranting but dont listen to anyone.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

      Oh we all know your kind all too well. I'll bet you never brought one cost cutting measure forward when you were getting paid on the job. But now that you are just another tax payer suddenly you are an expert on fire department operations and cost savings.

      Yeah we know all about you. Open mouth ranting but dont listen to anyone.
      Blah Blah Blah

      You should look in the mirror

      Done with you troll

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post

        Blah Blah Blah

        You should look in the mirror

        Done with you troll
        Yawn...You are a broken record of inaccuracies.
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
          Personally I think You are the one trolling here too old.

          Obviously I know what I am talking about.

          And a TCRFA does not impact me I live somewhere else in my retirement. I live on an island now, a ferry trip from anywhere, not exactly conducive to auto aid; Thank God.

          You don't know me at all too old, quit pretending otherwise. That just shows the weakness of your argument.
          I disagree with and argue against your faulty premise. Just because I can't agree with you doesn't mean I am trolling.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post

            It's not my system, it's State Law.

            However you join the actual fire response together between two or more fire agencies, lawfully or not, the response will be the same. I'm surprised you don't get that. The Changes with following State Law (my system) instead of auto aid is that redundant fire admins are eliminated and the money saved can hire more firefighters. Also by following State law all taxpayers get to vote on the detailed merger plan that has all taxpayers paying the same in taxes for the new all for one fire response.

            Auto aid could be in your State Law, it's not in mine. Just show me your state law allowing auto aid.

            My system is so.......

            ROFLMAO

            My system is following State Law.
            Except that it's not redundant? Different communities have different needs. An all county or regional system does not address this. Your system works in a small amount of cases. Mutual aide has worked for decades and still works great. Get over yourself. You are a waste of board space.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
              Just show me your state law allowing auto aid.
              I'm sure I can find it, but I won't bother. NY has a statewide mutual aid plan - that allows us to go anywhere in the state should the need arise.

              My county has a countywide mutual aid plan to which all fire departments are signatories. No individual agreements between such entities are required. That means any department in the county can call on my department, either via an automatic, or via a special call. Even the two career staffed departments in this otherwise all-volunteer county are signatories.

              I haven't heard you mention battalion chiefs, or anything along that line. You're going to need one for each four or five stations, to maintain a reasonable span of control. And every five battalion chiefs will need another chief over them to maintain acceptable span of control. For that matter, each station will require a captain or lieutenant for each shift, which they may not already have in place (the chief may have served that purpose).

              This topic sure seems to be a burr under your saddle.


              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JSJJ388 View Post

                Except that it's not redundant? Different communities have different needs. An all county or regional system does not address this. Your system works in a small amount of cases. Mutual aide has worked for decades and still works great. Get over yourself. You are a waste of board space.
                More than one Fire Chief for a merged fire response is redundant, by definition. Figure it out already

                WOrks great with more Chiefs than you need and all taxpayers paying different amounts of taxes for the same fire response. Works great? Not really.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                  Yawn...You are a broken record of inaccuracies.
                  Cry me a river Troll.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                    I'm sure I can find it, but I won't bother. NY has a statewide mutual aid plan - that allows us to go anywhere in the state should the need arise.

                    My county has a countywide mutual aid plan to which all fire departments are signatories. No individual agreements between such entities are required. That means any department in the county can call on my department, either via an automatic, or via a special call. Even the two career staffed departments in this otherwise all-volunteer county are signatories.

                    I haven't heard you mention battalion chiefs, or anything along that line. You're going to need one for each four or five stations, to maintain a reasonable span of control. And every five battalion chiefs will need another chief over them to maintain acceptable span of control. For that matter, each station will require a captain or lieutenant for each shift, which they may not already have in place (the chief may have served that purpose).

                    This topic sure seems to be a burr under your saddle.

                    Won't bother finding it; That's rich!!!!

                    ROFLMAO

                    But you seemed so sure.

                    ROFLMAO

                    Comment


                    • Just found this article on some Washington State FD mergers. The following is an excerpt from the article and the full article is at the link below:

                      .....All six commissioners, three from each district, will initially serve on the joint commission, and as their terms expire, the commission will winnow to three or five commissioners.

                      At a later point, voters in the new district would need to vote on whether they want commissioner districts within the fire district. Welander and Hunter also both plan to remain in their positions, with Welander likely serving as assistant fire chief until Hunter retires.

                      Hunter is a volunteer with a stipend, while Welander is a contracted paid employee.

                      "Ultimately, I'll probably be retiring soon," Hunter said. "That all hasn?t been worked out fully. The ultimate goal would be one chief."

                      Throughout Mason County, there are currently 13 fire districts, many of which have a small cadre of volunteer firefighters and limited resources.

                      In 2013, more than 75 percent of voters in Tahuya and Belfair voted to create a regional fire authority to combine Fire District Nos. 8 and 2........

                      https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news...ing/513565002/
                      Last edited by Bigjohn24; 09-08-2018, 08:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post

                        More than one Fire Chief for a merged fire response is redundant, by definition. Figure it out already

                        WOrks great with more Chiefs than you need and all taxpayers paying different amounts of taxes for the same fire response. Works great? Not really.
                        No, it is not redundant. Each chief knows his district. Different areas require different protection, this meas varying amounts of taxation. You are the one who needs to figure it out, figure out that you are now the laughing stock of this forum!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JSJJ388 View Post

                          No, it is not redundant. Each chief knows his district. Different areas require different protection, this meas varying amounts of taxation. You are the one who needs to figure it out, figure out that you are now the laughing stock of this forum!
                          Two or more Fire Chiefs for a single fire response is redundant.

                          Laughing stock of this forum. Now that's funny.

                          Each Cief wants to keep their job is all.

                          Comment


                          • In the Tri Cities with their auto aid agreement there are 8-9 FD's involved. They have a single auto aid fire response with 8-9 Fire Chiefs, 8-9 assistant or deputy Chiefs (probably more), 8-9 training Officers, etc. and so on.

                            If they were to merge instead of use auto aid they would lose 7-8 Fire Chiefs, 7-8 Assistant or Deputy Chiefs (probably more), 7-8 training officers, etc. and so on. That's a lot of money in Fire Admin Salaries for a single fire response.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post

                              Two or more Fire Chiefs for a single fire response is redundant.
                              I hope you've informed NYC of this. They clearly don't understand.

                              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
                                Just found this article on some Washington State FD mergers. The following is an excerpt from the article and the full article is at the link below:

                                .....All six commissioners, three from each district, will initially serve on the joint commission, and as their terms expire, the commission will winnow to three or five commissioners.

                                At a later point, voters in the new district would need to vote on whether they want commissioner districts within the fire district. Welander and Hunter also both plan to remain in their positions, with Welander likely serving as assistant fire chief until Hunter retires.

                                Hunter is a volunteer with a stipend, while Welander is a contracted paid employee.

                                "Ultimately, I'll probably be retiring soon," Hunter said. "That all hasn?t been worked out fully. The ultimate goal would be one chief."

                                Throughout Mason County, there are currently 13 fire districts, many of which have a small cadre of volunteer firefighters and limited resources.

                                In 2013, more than 75 percent of voters in Tahuya and Belfair voted to create a regional fire authority to combine Fire District Nos. 8 and 2........

                                https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news...ing/513565002/
                                Yawn...Hurray for them. Doesn't mean it will work everywhere.
                                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                                Millions of people living as foes
                                Maybe it's not too late
                                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                                Comment

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