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Automatic aid agreements-Perpetuating the Bureaucracy

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  • #31
    I think you are losing it,

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    • #32
      And there are two reasons your department is involved in Auto-Aid Chief.

      Perpetuating the bureaucracy and your failure to provide fire protection in your community without outside help. Big fail if you ask me Chief.

      Now go troll someone else.
      Last edited by Bigjohn24; 09-06-2018, 02:32 PM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
        And there are two reasons your department is involved in Auto-Aid Chief.

        Perpetuating the bureaucracy and your failure to provide fire protection in your community without outside help. Big fail if you ask me Chief.

        Now go troll someone else.
        And Ill bet you are loved and admired by the fire department in your area. You know, the big city know it all that sucked on the tit of a government pay check and then the retirement too that you have now, but has "Praise whatever deity that you believe in" seen the light of how expensive the fire service is. Yep you are a fine example of I got mine but screw you guys lets cut funding to the FD. I know your kind all too well. I'll bet you **** and moan about taxes at the local Quickie Mart while drinking your dollar cup of coffee.

        If it sucks so bad in the burbs move back into the city.
        Last edited by FyredUp; 09-06-2018, 02:49 PM.
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment


        • #34
          [QUOTE=FyredUp;n2096112]
          Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
          Have fun Chief. I thought I was a consultant according to you? You confused much? They don't have a Fire Chiefs' forum?

          I don't like having firefighter EMT's that are trained to the same level doing the same work side by side, one for half the hourly wage of the other. Rubs me wrong. And they can't be called back for major emergencies because of part time hours restrictions.

          Works well here to augment staffing.

          I think it is even easier saving money by joining forces lawfully and merging fire administrations, not just merging the firefighters through auto aid."

          Your opinion. Sometimes it works and others it doesn't.

          I totally respect volunteer firefighters doing the job for next to nothing, helping out their community.

          Unless they are protecting you?

          I bet you are OK with getting by on the cheap Chief, whatever it takes. You don't get paid in your Chief Jobs?

          Um, listen hero, your idea is to get the entire fire service to get by on the cheap. Maybe you aren't smart enough to see you are chasing your own tail with this idiotic statement.

          I know you are OK with perpetuating the bureaucracy, you are the bureaucracy.

          Yeah I'm the bureaucracy. Both of my jobs are part-time, one 36 hours or less a week and the other 20 hours a week. Yes I am paid, no benefits, no vacation, and I am a working chief if I am on duty and we get a call I am going. Yeah I am a HUGE example of your bloated FDs admin.

          GEEZUS you are either a troll or an idiot.
          .... Or the return of SC.
          Train to fight the fires you fight.

          Comment


          • #35
            [QUOTE=LaFireEducator;n2096121]
            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

            .... Or the return of SC.
            In one of his many alter-egos!
            Crazy, but that's how it goes
            Millions of people living as foes
            Maybe it's not too late
            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Too_Old View Post
              You are barking up the wrong tree.

              It's not automatic mutual aid that keeps your fire districts from merging. It is local politics that does so. Automatic aid is just a process to make the most effective (if sometimes not efficient) use of local resources. If you have a problem with 'over dispatch', then that should be addressed by paring back the run-cards. Not every 'food on the stove' needs an assignment with 9 pieces of apparatus and 3 battalion chiefs.
              Right tree I think.

              Yeah politics does keep fire districts from merging and instead only firefighters merged under auto-aid deals. The politics of perpetuating the bureaucracy. It is just not human nature, in my experience, to willingly axe one's own job with a merger. That's why Fire Admins stay intact in these all for one auto aid deals. My opinion of course.

              It's not about over-dispatch. It's about communities providing their own fire rescue and only depending on back up from other neighboring FD's in large emergencies or multiple emergencies that would challenge any well staffed FD. Auto aid is just a bail out for not having enough firefighters for first response. And that is dangerous. About the time you have a good chunk of your fire rescue service in another community and a big emergency hits in your community.

              And I have never seen what the taxpayers paying for their fire protection equalling what the other FD taxpayers are paying for their FD. So an all for one auto aid response may have one FD's taxpayers paying $1.50 per $1000 assessed value, another might $1.10 and another might pay $0.85. All paying different amounts in taxes for the same all for one auto aid multi-agency response. That means some taxpayers get by on the cheap and others pay the lion's share for the all for one auto aid fire response. That's not fair to some of the taxpayers and a helluva deal for other taxpayers. And that's not fair either.

              Comment


              • #37
                Reminds me of someone else we see here occasionally (as was pointed out while I was typing). Holds an opinion based on his own bad experience and won't listen to anyone who can provide a better example.

                As noted, there is no bureaucracy around here to preserve.

                When I joined my department, it had to be a pretty good worker before ANY mutual aid got called. Nowadays, automatics are the rule of the day - not because anyone is trying to preserve their bureaucracy, but because it's the only way to get enough manpower - especially during the day. Merging departments/districts wouldn't cure that issue. The drop in volunteers has been well documented.

                Before I'd condemn a small career department for having three office staff, I'd want to find out what those staffers do. If they stand around serving each other coffee all day - there's too many of them. But if they are actually serving a function, maybe it's not a problem at all.
                Last edited by tree68; 09-06-2018, 02:55 PM.
                Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                Comment


                • #38
                  SC?

                  Have I stepped into a little peyton place of Chiefs?

                  ROFLMAO

                  This is what happens when you start questioning Fire Management, you get trolled.

                  Have fun girls.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                    And Ill bet you are loved and admired by the fire department in your area. You know, the big city know it all that sucked on the tit of a government pay check and then the retirement too that you have now, but has "Praise whatever deity that you believe in" seen the light of how expensive the fire service is. Yep you are a fine example of I got mine but screw you guys lets cut funding to the FD. I know your kind all too well. I'll bet you **** and moan about taxes at the local Quickie Mart while drinking your dollar cup of coffee.

                    If it sucks so bad in the burbs move back into the city.
                    You are clueless and a failure as a Fire Chief it appears.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bigjohn24 View Post
                      I think fire admins push fire auto aid over joining forces totally, just to save their jobs.
                      I think you're stuck on that, and no one is going to convince you otherwise...

                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                        Reminds me of someone else we see here occasionally (as was pointed out while I was typing). Holds an opinion based on his own bad experience and won't listen to anyone who can provide a better example.

                        As noted, there is no bureaucracy around here to preserve.

                        When I joined my department, it had to be a pretty good worker before ANY mutual aid got called. Nowadays, automatics are the rule of the day - not because anyone is trying to preserve their bureaucracy, but because it's the only way to get enough manpower - especially during the day. Merging departments/districts wouldn't cure that issue. The drop in volunteers has been well documented.

                        Before I'd condemn a small career department for having three office staff, I'd want to find out what those staffers do. If they stand around serving each other coffee all day - there's too many of them. But if they are actually serving a function, maybe it's not a problem at all.
                        If you don;t pay for any fire admin, have fun with an auto aid agreement. Obviously this whole deal does not apply to you.

                        This isn't about my bad experience. This is about the reality of what I am saying when there are significant fire admin dollars involved in multiple agencies doing auto aid deals. You don't think this applies anywhere just because you don't have a fire department?

                        And my new FD providing me fire rescue is totally top heay. The Chief of this small FD makes over $140 K a year and has another Chief making about the same. For an island community of less than 10,000. Our Chiefs are approaching what the Seattle Fire Chief makes. And there is a $100 K a year fleet director and the same for a facilities director and two training officers. Totally too top heavy.
                        Last edited by Bigjohn24; 09-06-2018, 03:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                          And Ill bet you are loved and admired by the fire department in your area. You know, the big city know it all that sucked on the tit of a government pay check and then the retirement too that you have now, but has "Praise whatever deity that you believe in" seen the light of how expensive the fire service is. Yep you are a fine example of I got mine but screw you guys lets cut funding to the FD. I know your kind all too well. I'll bet you **** and moan about taxes at the local Quickie Mart while drinking your dollar cup of coffee.

                          If it sucks so bad in the burbs move back into the city.
                          Phrases like "gravy train" and "sucked on the tit of a government paycheck" have no place here IMO.

                          The value to a community of an effective emergency medical/fire/emergency mitigation force has been repeatedly established.

                          I think you would agree and you just got carried away with your responses here.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tree68 View Post

                            I think you're stuck on that, and no one is going to convince you otherwise...
                            My experience has me pretty firm on that. That and the facts of what is best for taxpayers and firefighters. If you need to have an auto aid agreement to fight fires you have a failure of a fire department, by definition.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                              Phrases like "gravy train" and "sucked on the tit of a government paycheck" have no place here IMO.

                              The value to a community of an effective emergency medical/fire/emergency mitigation force has been repeatedly established.

                              I think you would agree and you just got carried away with your responses here.
                              I agree.

                              Don't bet on the Chief agreeing.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                And the entire statement in my original post is that auto aid agreements only merge firefighters and not costly Fire Admins; And that Taxpayers in these auto aid deals often pay varying amounts in taxes to support the all for one auto aid response.

                                Using other lawful means to join together not only merges firefighters but fire admins too. And these lawful means of merging FD's also has all taxpayers paying the same amount in FD taxes.

                                So sue me!!

                                Comment

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