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"When things go bad, you can breathe the air from the fog stream..."

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  • "When things go bad, you can breathe the air from the fog stream..."

    I keep hearing this, but has anyone actually survived a bad situation by doing this?

    It makes utterly no sense to me...
    Two departments, twice the fun...

  • #2
    The fact that it makes no sense to you means you have at least half a brain, because all the air in the cone of a fog stream is what's been pulled in from the surrounding air. Anyone that believes you can do this is an idiot that knows nothing about firefighting. The movement of droplets in the fog pattern pull in surrounding smoke and products of combustion, so you will STILL get overcome by smoke. It may cool the smoke somewhat, but it will not add any oxygen. Ask anyone who tells you this to please tell you where the good air is coming from....

    Comment


    • #3
      It's like a guy I heard telling a probationary class that they could "suck up fresh air from between the floorboards" if in a pinch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by johnsb View Post
        The fact that it makes no sense to you means you have at least half a brain, because all the air in the cone of a fog stream is what's been pulled in from the surrounding air. Anyone that believes you can do this is an idiot that knows nothing about firefighting. The movement of droplets in the fog pattern pull in surrounding smoke and products of combustion, so you will STILL get overcome by smoke. It may cool the smoke somewhat, but it will not add any oxygen. Ask anyone who tells you this to please tell you where the good air is coming from....
        I keep hearing it from firefighters with long amounts of service and various instructors.

        I find it hard that being a newer guy(two volunteer departments; 6 years on one and just got on with the other) if I question this wisdom from a 20 year vet it'll reflect poorly on me, rightly or wrongly.

        I just find it odd that something as critical as this is allowed to be told to newer members despite evidence to the contrary.
        Last edited by MikeG344; 05-16-2018, 12:26 PM.
        Two departments, twice the fun...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MikeG344 View Post
          I just find it odd that something as critical as this is allowed to be told to newer members despite evidence to the contrary.
          Sounds like a good topic for a "Mythbusters" episode...

          The problem will be setting up a realistic scenario so you could try it within your own department.

          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

          Comment


          • #6
            What air? the smoke filled and super heated air that is in the room in question? Can you breathe it? sure, I guess. do you really want that superheated gases in your lungs, along with all that smoke? especially since all the "air" was just pulled from an IDLH. I mean, I guess in theory you can, but you are likely to suffer internal burns and other badness up to an including death as a direct result.

            I would tell the people who tell you that "thank you for that advice, I'm going to stick to using my SCBA to provide my air, prevent myself from getting into a situation that is that bad, and if things get really bad, I will call for help, do my best to self extricate and jump out of a window and hang there, hoping someone gets a ladder up to me. This way I have a better chance for survival than trying to breath the air from the fog stream."

            And FYI, NFPA doesn't certify instructors.
            If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

            FF/EMT/DBP

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            • #7
              Originally posted by drparasite View Post
              And FYI, NFPA doesn't certify instructors.
              Sorry, poor choice of words.

              Two departments, twice the fun...

              Comment


              • #8
                I've been hearing the same thing lately, not condoning it in the least in fact I think it's insane.... BUT if you were in a well vented structure by well vented I mean proper hole in the roof and doors open AND you were in the proper position with the fire in front of you and not to the side or behind then theoretically the air entrainment should improve conditions where YOU are.
                Again I'm not recommending this or condoning this just spent some thinking about it........... Flame away
                Get the first line into operation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
                  IBUT if you were in a well vented structure by well vented I mean proper hole in the roof and doors open AND you were in the proper position with the fire in front of you and not to the side or behind then theoretically the air entrainment should improve conditions where YOU are.
                  Assuming everything is aligning perfectly as you are describing it, and the planets are all aligned, and the conditions are just perfect (we will ignore the "When things go bad" statement, since you are describing super ideal conditions), wouldn't you be able to breath normally without an SCBA, negating the need to get anywhere near the fog stream, since it would be pulling enough good air through all the openings in the structure?

                  And if this was the ideal circumstances, I don't think things would go bad, requiring you to do this incredibly stupid "breath from the fog stream" idea.
                  If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                  FF/EMT/DBP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by drparasite View Post
                    Assuming everything is aligning perfectly as you are describing it, and the planets are all aligned, and the conditions are just perfect (we will ignore the "When things go bad" statement, since you are describing super ideal conditions), wouldn't you be able to breath normally without an SCBA, negating the need to get anywhere near the fog stream, since it would be pulling enough good air through all the openings in the structure?

                    And if this was the ideal circumstances, I don't think things would go bad, requiring you to do this incredibly stupid "breath from the fog stream" idea.
                    I agree, and yes my description was super perfect as it would have to be for this to work
                    Get the first line into operation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I suspect this whole concept (and I remember it from 40 years ago) may stem from a belief that the water itself may be carrying air that somehow becomes usable for a firefighter in need. Someone pitched the idea years ago and others have bought in.

                      I know that if the water is coming from a stagnant pond, I don't want my face next to the stream... And I've seen some pretty stinky ponds.
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MikeG344 View Post
                        I keep hearing this, but has anyone actually survived a bad situation by doing this?

                        It makes utterly no sense to me...
                        I can't believe anyone still thinks this is fact. I was told this when I started in 1986, when we used 30+ degree fog streams. I suspect it was a theory borne of the attack from the unburned side and push the fire out through the already burned. Based on the assumption that there was clean air at your back and being pulled forward into the fog stream. Anyone who thinks this is still the way things work needs some training updates or a plaque and a smack on the azz.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I never had to use this tactic. I thought it might be a school of thought that believes the turbulence caused by the water might have clean air for a brief moment.

                          It never made sense to me.
                          They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well fellows at FDIC this year there was a gizmo for sale that you attach behind the nozzle that allowed you to breath off from the hoseline. BUT, you had to tell the pump operator to shut off the water, switch to filling the hoseline with air, the nozzle person had to bleed the water from the line, and then you hooked a hose on your pack and to the connection on the hoseline. It was designed for those times when you were trapped and low on air.

                            Interesting idea, but I wondered how it would work if you needed the hoseline to protect yourself.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm sure all of that can be done in a calm and cool manner while one is being asphyxiated.
                              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment

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