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long driveway lay or shuttle?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
    Interesting, I have actually never seen a tanker without a pump. But I reckon that would cause some issues with my setup.
    In general, you'll find 1250/1000 engines here, and 2000 gallon tankers - often "bikini" set-ups. Very few tankers here are set up such that one could connect a length of 2.5" suction and draft directly from the tanker. The pump on some is just a portable pump plumbed into the tank. But virtually all are carrying a drop tank.
    Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
    Pumper\tankers are really popular around here and in GA, Saw one the other day that was new that held 3000 gallons and had a 1500 gmp pump
    Very few engines with larger than a 1000 gallon tank in this area. A few are set up with dumps, but not many. The trend never really caught on here. They were popular in Michigan for a while, too.

    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by tree68 View Post
      In general, you'll find 1250/1000 engines here, and 2000 gallon tankers - often "bikini" set-ups. Very few tankers here are set up such that one could connect a length of 2.5" suction and draft directly from the tanker. The pump on some is just a portable pump plumbed into the tank. But virtually all are carrying a drop tank.

      Very few engines with larger than a 1000 gallon tank in this area. A few are set up with dumps, but not many. The trend never really caught on here. They were popular in Michigan for a while, too.
      Its neat how the needs of the area cause such drastic differences in equipment. At least it is to me.

      Here, I cant think of a first due engine with less than 1500 gals. Our only truck with less is the brush truck. Our old tanker is 2000 with a 1000 gpm pump. Our new one is 3000 gal with a *EDIT - just looked, ITS 1500 gpm pump*.
      Last edited by JSJJ388; 08-23-2018, 09:28 AM.

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      • #93
        But if it has a pump isn't a pumper vs a tender?

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        • #94
          Originally posted by captnjak View Post
          But if it has a pump isn't a pumper vs a tender?
          I would opine that if it meets the equipment requirements for a pumper (ladders, hose, tools, etc) then yes, it could be considered a pumper. I suppose it depends on the department's primary use for the vehicle. If they bought it to haul water and equipped it with a pump "just in case," then it's a tanker. If they bought it as an initial attack vehicle, then it's a pumper, or pumper/tanker.

          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by captnjak View Post
            But if it has a pump isn't a pumper vs a tender?
            I guess you could classify it as a pumper, but it doesnt have the discharges that a typical pumper has. It has 1 rear hose reel and 1 5" connection on each side, carries no hose other than the reel.

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            • #96
              Our tankers have a 1000gpm fire-pump and one pre-connect. They don't carry ladders or supply line so they are not credited as a pumper.. The pump gives the option to:
              - nurse the first due engine if the tanker beats the second due engine to the scene.
              - fight a brush fire alongside the brush trucks.
              - put out a house fire because the engine was on a medical local or car crash.

              All of the above have happened with varying frequency.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Too_Old View Post
                All of the above have happened with varying frequency.
                I don't think our tanker has ever been first in on a structure fire, but there is hose on board, albeit rolled in a compartment. The others, for sure.

                Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Too_Old View Post
                  Our tankers have a 1000gpm fire-pump and one pre-connect. They don't carry ladders or supply line so they are not credited as a pumper.. The pump gives the option to:
                  - nurse the first due engine if the tanker beats the second due engine to the scene.
                  - fight a brush fire alongside the brush trucks.
                  - put out a house fire because the engine was on a medical local or car crash.

                  All of the above have happened with varying frequency.
                  It's pretty typical around here for tankers to have a pump of at least 500gpm and at least 2 handlines, and often a booster reel. Often the departments will respond them, to brush fires, instead of engines, along with the brush trucks.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The majority of new tenders in my area are being built with rated fire pumps. Usually in the 500 to 1000 gpm range but some 1500 gpm pumps thrown in here and there. The rest have smaller gasoline powered portable pumps, usually 250 gpm but up to 500 gpm.

                    Honestly I see little value in a tender that can't supply at least a couple of handlines or flow at least 500 gpm to supply an engine. My volly FDs current tender is set up to run not only as a tender but as a 3rd out engine complete with a 1000gpm pump and all NFPA engine company equipment.
                    Crazy, but that's how it goes
                    Millions of people living as foes
                    Maybe it's not too late
                    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                    • The only reason a neighboring FD specified a pump (and foam) on their new tanker some years ago was because their usual MVA engine ran out of water at an MVA where one of the cars caught fire. The occupants were likely already dead, but the specs for what would be the replacement tanker included a pump and foam. It was supposed to become first due for MVAs.

                      One problem with tankers that can fight fire is that they can get buried at the scene fighting fire when they should be doing what they were intended to do - haul water. Handling issues notwithstanding, sometimes the tanker is a truck that many can drive, so it's often the first out the door.
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                        The only reason a neighboring FD specified a pump (and foam) on their new tanker some years ago was because their usual MVA engine ran out of water at an MVA where one of the cars caught fire. The occupants were likely already dead, but the specs for what would be the replacement tanker included a pump and foam. It was supposed to become first due for MVAs.

                        One problem with tankers that can fight fire is that they can get buried at the scene fighting fire when they should be doing what they were intended to do - haul water. Handling issues notwithstanding, sometimes the tanker is a truck that many can drive, so it's often the first out the door.
                        Our older tanker was spec'd by the old Chief with exactly your reasoning in the second paragraph in mind. It rarely gets used now, because that's ALL it can do, just haul water.
                        Our newer engine tanker can handle a multitude of roles as the situation needs, and is often requested or our first automatic aid piece. We can use it as an attack engine, to draft, to relay, to shuttle, be a nurse tank, we even have enough that a compartment can be temporarily repurposed to hold a combo tool and cribbing to fill in for our rescue engine if it happens to be out of service for any reason. We now try to overlap our equipment so that if one piece is down, we haven't lost much capability.
                        There's no point of having 2-3000 gallons of water show up to a fire without any means of putting in on the fire. I get that some dept's don't have the need or want to go as far as we did, but it helps with our ISO rating and gives us flexibility.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                          Dude seriously. You came back here a MONTH after my last post to restart the argument and you call me contentious. Pot meet kettle.

                          I never said the relay wouldn't work, what i said was if you didn't account for a water supply while it was being set-up it wouldn't matter anyways.
                          Sometimes I'm not here for a month, so I haven't seen your reply until then. Guess what, I do other stuff when I'm not here, which is most of the time. You get a response on my time, not yours.

                          And I covered the part about water supply, we have automatic response, so it's on it's way with the initial dispatch. And more tankers if we get additional info suggesting we may need more.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                            So the fire is right next to the fire station and you have all of the rigs staffed when the call comes in? Because unless your first rig up that 2500 foot driveway has 2500 feet of LDH on board you will no way get that hose laid in 10 minutes, get the fold a tank dropped, draft engine set up, and water dumped into the tank in 10 minutes, let alone fill 2500 feet of hose with water. You for sure are not filling that 2500 feet of hose with a 1000 gallon tank from an engine.

                            You are trying too hard to sell your plan with a ludicrous time frame.
                            NOWHERE did I say I was filling 2500' of hose from a 1,000 gallon engine. Evidently you missed the part about automatic response of several tankers... Nor do we have to drop a dump tank, guess you've not heard of using a tanker as a nurse tank....Having the station staffed has nothing to do with it, we're talking about on the scene.
                            See, you just keep attacking...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                              One problem with tankers that can fight fire is that they can get buried at the scene fighting fire when they should be doing what they were intended to do - haul water. Handling issues notwithstanding, sometimes the tanker is a truck that many can drive, so it's often the first out the door.
                              Sure, that's a risk, but IMHO not a great one. A pumper-tanker stuck in the supply-pumper role just means dispatch has to add another tanker to the assignment. Plenty of time to get that to the scene if everyone else shows up.

                              ​​​​​​This past week a neighboring department had a mid-morning housefire. Worst case scenario, house at the end of a rural driveway on a peninsula with the next due company 20min out. The local department' got out with four on the engine and a 'mature' gentleman on their 2500gal pumper/tanker right behind them. They laid out down the driveway and he just hooked up to nurse the attack piece. By the time the next due tanker arrived an incoming crew had assisted the tanker driver to set up a porta-tank and a suction. Sure, that tanker was out of the rotation and ended up tethered to the supply engine assignment, but that was no loss as there was a line of 3500gal units in staging by the time he would have been needed in the shuttle.
                              Last edited by Too_Old; 08-28-2018, 08:23 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Too_Old View Post

                                Sure, that's a risk, but IMHO not a great one. A pumper-tanker stuck in the supply-pumper role just means dispatch has to add another tanker to the assignment. Plenty of time to get that to the scene if everyone else shows up.

                                ​​​​​​This past week a neighboring department had a mid-morning housefire. Worst case scenario, house at the end of a rural driveway on a peninsula with the next due company 20min out. The local department' got out with four on the engine and a 'mature' gentleman on their 2500gal pumper/tanker right behind them. They laid out down the driveway and he just hooked up to nurse the attack piece. By the time the next due tanker arrived an incoming crew had assisted the tanker driver to set up a porta-tank and a suction. Sure, that tanker was out of the rotation and ended up tethered to the supply engine assignment, but that was no loss as there was a line of 3500gal units in staging by the time he would have been needed.
                                Well since most of the tankers around here are pumper tankers, that's not a problem. Some of the departments we run with aren't good at drafting, so with our older tanker, it would just sit there until an engine that could draft showed up. The next county over likes to use a nurse tanker setup, they don't use dump tanks much, so again, that tanker is useless.

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