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Filling Tankers/Tenders

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  • Filling Tankers/Tenders

    Its well published that filling tankers should be done at a rate of 1000 gpm. The question is what is the target PSI at the fill connection at the back of the tanker/tender? We all know how to figure PDP for handlines and we know when relay pumping you want a minimum of 20psi residual pressure, but no where can I find what the max or ideal PSI should be going into a tankers direct fill. Looking for a little insight.

  • #2
    I think it is dependent on the location of the fill. A top fill, theoretically, should need less pressure to push the water into the tank than a bottom fill dealing with the back pressure of the water in the tank.

    Either way most often a tender fill line is short, 50 to 100 feet, so most often an engine pressure of 50 to 100 pounds is more than sufficient. Especially when you consider hydrant pressures are usually within that range.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    • #3
      Seems like I've been told 50 PSI max.

      But it's hard to get even that on the gauge when pumping into what amounts to an open butt. Not many engines have a flow meter.

      If the tank is metal and has a good overflow capability, you're usually OK at a high rate of fill. I've seen issues with poly tanks splitting seams. It takes a careful eye and a working level gauge to avoid issues.

      Most tankers here now have two ground-level fills with Stortz connectors left in place. I've run fill sites with four lines out, so the next incoming tanker can be connected while the current one fills.

      Top filling (through the hatch) used to be the norm. Fortunately, that's not the case any more.
      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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      • #4
        Each apparatus is different. Our neighboring department has a tanker with a placard that states do not fill over 50psi. Ours came with a tag stating 100psi. That is based mostly on tank design and materials.

        As for fill flow volumes, it is also dependent on the manufacturer and the venting and overflow. If the tank is set up to take higher flow rates, there is no reason not to fill above 1000gpm.

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        • #5
          To be clear on my comment I was not talking about top filling through the hatch. Our one tender has its fill connection near the top of the tank at the rear of the rig.
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
            To be clear on my comment I was not talking about top filling through the hatch. Our one tender has its fill connection near the top of the tank at the rear of the rig.
            Our tanker has the gated inlets near the bottom of the tank on the outside - but inside the tank are two pipes that arch up to the top of the tank. You can't get water out of the fills.

            There are several departments whose tankers have the fills near the top. A real pain, especially in the wintertime. You're virtually guaranteed to get wet.
            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

            Comment


            • #7
              We were told the max is 100; if you fill them with too much pressure, the one way valves get stuck in the open position, and the whole thing needs to be taken apart to fix or replace them.

              So we pump our direct fill connections at 80psi

              Check with your particular manufacturer to see what they recommend, as they might have designed them to function at a particular pressure..
              If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

              FF/EMT/DBP

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              • #8
                100 psi max is what I've heard for modern tanks with a fill tower. If it were an older tank or something "home made", I'd not go over 50 psi. And if you can watch your fill gauge, you can always back it down at the very end. When you fill a tank often enough, you get to know how long it takes for water to come out of the overflow once the gauge or lights show full. We also had an engine that would creak as it settled on the springs as it filled, so we could tell by the sound when it was getting near full.

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                • #9
                  Contrary to initial impression, it does not matter if the water enters the tank at the bottom or the top. The velocity of the water in the hose is determined by the difference in pressure between the pump pressure and the discharge pressure, unless there is a restriction (nozzle) on the end of the hose (pipe). In fact by starting the fill (empty tank) at the bottom there is zero head pressure from the tank. On the other hand, an over the top fill requires overcoming head pressure the entire fill cycle. Many if not all manufacturers will limit fill pressures to 100 psi max. When the tank reaches the full point, the vent becomes a restriction to the flow of the excess water. Let us say you are filling at 960 gpm. using the formula for discharge from a round "nozzle" we can determine that it will take a nozzle pressure of 4 psi to discharge that amount of water. (30 x d x d x Sq.Rt. of pressure) Suppose you have a flat top tank with a size of 6 1/2 ft. wide by 10 ft. long or 9,600 square inches or 38,400 pounds (19 tons) trying to push the top off the tank. Increasing the vent to 10 inches will lower the pressure to 0.1 psi or only 960 lbs trying to lift the tank lid. Some tanker manufacturers limit the fill to a single inlet and then reduce the piping size to limit the fill rates. Specify what performance you wish to achieve and have an acceptance test that matches your specifications for both fill, dump & nurse rates.

                  Comment

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