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  • #76
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'll ignore your comment on shafting Union firefighters. I am Union born and bred, and was the VP of my IAFF local.

    Most chiefs are former union members. They are usually the worst when it comes to shafting the rank and file .
    Holy CRAP SC! We may actually have found something we can agree on.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
      Most chiefs are former union members. They are usually the worst when it comes to shafting the rank and file .
      It happens on the volunteer side, too. Elect a former chief to the board of fire commissioners and watch out...

      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

        Holy CRAP SC! We may actually have found something we can agree on.
        Here's the money quote from a fire chief when something goes wrong that probably could have been prevented. Especially if the catastrophe was caused by using reduced staffing of using lesser qualified individuals.

        "I've been in the fire service for (fill in the number) years. I've never seen fire behavior like this in my career. Nothing could have been done to have a different outcome."

        Most of the time that is not true. Better staffing. Better preparations. Any number of factors could have been done to affect a different and better outcome. Fire chiefs (especially ones like paddyc) prey on the fact the general public doesn't know any better.
        Last edited by scfire86; 05-18-2018, 11:33 AM.
        They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

        I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by scfire86 View Post

          Here's the money quote from a fire chief when something goes wrong that probably could have been prevented. Especially if the catastrophe was caused by using reduced staffing of using lesser qualified individuals.

          "I've been in the fire service for (fill in the number) years. I've never seen fire behavior like this in my career. Nothing could have been done to have a different outcome."

          Most of the time that is not true. Better staffing. Better preparations. Any number of factors could have been done to affect a different and better outcome. Fire chiefs (especially ones like paddyc) prey on the fact the general public doesn't know any better.
          Isn't it funny that the number of those disastrous fires seem to increase after staffing and equipment cuts, as well as brown outs or closing of stations.

          Sadly mercenary Fire Chiefs are a real problem today. They get hired from the outside, have no ties to anything or anyone in the community or the fire department so when tasked with slashing staffing and equipment there is no emotional baggage to have to clear through.

          Not all outside chiefs are like that. In fact sometimes an outside chief can be the best thing that ever happened to a stagnant, going nowhere department.

          Claiming IAFF membership and being associated with ICMA does not compute. One is supporting firefighters and one is doing anything to reduce the cost of fire departments even if it creates staffing and equipment shortages. If your are for ICMA you are NOT supporting Union firefighters, or any firefighters for that matter.
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
            Claiming IAFF membership and being associated with ICMA does not compute. One is supporting firefighters and one is doing anything to reduce the cost of fire departments even if it creates staffing and equipment shortages. If your are for ICMA you are NOT supporting Union firefighters, or any firefighters for that matter.
            To repeat what I said earlier, I wrote the piece to inform city managers that they have a viable option that does not include staff reductions - which the ICMA consultants always recommend.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by paddyc View Post
              To repeat what I said earlier, I wrote the piece to inform city managers that they have a viable option that does not include staff reductions - which the ICMA consultants always recommend.
              Why did you change your Linked In profile? When I looked at it there were 2 additional items listing ICMA and time frames?
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                Why did you change your Linked In profile? When I looked at it there were 2 additional items listing ICMA and time frames?
                I had not looked at my LinkedIn profile in years, and I have never been affiliated with the ICMA. I am just trying to get the word out that fire department staff cuts are foolish and dangerous, and that there is an efficient way to augment career positions on engine and ladder companies in order to maintain 4-man minimums.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Oh do us all a favor. You're just a tool looking to make a buck on the backs of firefighters and public safety.

                  You aren't the first, you won't be the last.

                  Sadly, you are one of the many challenging realities facing the fire service.
                  They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                  I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                    Oh do us all a favor. You're just a tool looking to make a buck on the backs of firefighters and public safety.

                    You aren't the first, you won't be the last.

                    Sadly, you are one of the many challenging realities facing the fire service.
                    You don't know what you're talking about. I am the person who created the concepts of critical fireground tasks and effective response force, the bases of NFPA 1710. I share my information freely.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      You think you are the first one I've seen who had a better mousetrap? As has been pointed out. Your scheme (which it is exactly that) is just a way to get cheap labor under the guise of providing public safety. It has at its core a belief that firefighting at the firefighter level is not much better than working at McDonalds.

                      I really doubt you were ever a firefighter at any point in time.

                      That you share it freely is indicative of what it's worth.

                      Run along.

                      The adults are talking.

                      For the love. Please learn how to spell.
                      Last edited by scfire86; 05-19-2018, 01:40 PM.
                      They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                      I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                        You think you are the first one I've seen who had a better mousetrap? As has been pointed out. Your scheme (which it is exactly that) is just a way to get cheap labor under the guise of providing public safety. It has at its core a belief that firefighting at the firefighter level is not much better than working at McDonalds.

                        I really doubt you were ever a firefighter at any point in time.

                        That you share it freely is indicative of what it's worth.

                        Run along.

                        The adults are talking.

                        For the love. Please learn how to spell.
                        Bases: The plural of basis.

                        You obviously have not read my earlier posts in this thread, and I see no need to repeat my background information.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Is there more than one basis in your concept? Or are there others? I've only seen one.

                          I have read all your posts.

                          Fyred Up has you pegged. No need to give your concepts any further consideration. Your idea is not new.
                          They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by paddyc View Post

                            Bases: The plural of basis.

                            You obviously have not read my earlier posts in this thread, and I see no need to repeat my background information.
                            Well other than the fact you removed information from your profile naming ICMA with associated dates.

                            Any affiliation or cooperation with ICMA makes your motives questionable.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                              Well other than the fact you removed information from your profile naming ICMA with associated dates.

                              Any affiliation or cooperation with ICMA makes your motives questionable.
                              There was nothing to remove because there was (and is) no affiliation. The article that the ICMA published was unsolicited and not paid for. I often comment on local news stories about deployment issues, and have frequently criticized the ICMA deployment studies for recommending cuts in crew size.

                              I don't know what else I can tell you. People, whether they be politicians or civilians, see other government services become more efficient and expect fire departments to do the same. The usual way to do so is to cut manpower, but fire suppression is manpower-intensive. Not only does reducing crew size increase the likelihood of fire deaths, injuries and property loss, it makes an inherently dangerous job unreasonable risky to firefighters. Augmenting career personnel with trained and qualified firefighters who get free college educations for their service reduces manpower cost without reducing crew size.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by paddyc View Post

                                There was nothing to remove because there was (and is) no affiliation. The article that the ICMA published was unsolicited and not paid for. I often comment on local news stories about deployment issues, and have frequently criticized the ICMA deployment studies for recommending cuts in crew size.

                                I don't know what else I can tell you. People, whether they be politicians or civilians, see other government services become more efficient and expect fire departments to do the same. The usual way to do so is to cut manpower, but fire suppression is manpower-intensive. Not only does reducing crew size increase the likelihood of fire deaths, injuries and property loss, it makes an inherently dangerous job unreasonable risky to firefighters. Augmenting career personnel with trained and qualified firefighters who get free college educations for their service reduces manpower cost without reducing crew size.
                                I support fully staffing career fire departments with career firefighters. Period, end of story.
                                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                                Millions of people living as foes
                                Maybe it's not too late
                                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                                Comment

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