Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact sales@firehouse.com
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

How does your department handle company transhers?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How does your department handle company transhers?

    For those departments with say at least 10 fire houses. How do you handle company transfers or move ups? Does your dispatch dictate which company move to which house, or is it left to the company officer to determine if their company transfers and to where?
    3
    Dispatch transfers companies
    100.00%
    3
    Companies move up themselves
    0%
    0

  • #2
    Sorry I'm not from a 10 house career FD, but here's how my career FD did it. Through the duty chief's orders dispatch moved companies.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #3
      Dispatch has full authority over unit movement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Only 6 stations here....but move ups are automatically initiated by the individual companies based on SOG. Countywide move ups are done by dispatch only.
        Jason Knecht
        Firefighter/EMT
        Township Fire Dept., Inc.
        Eau Claire, WI

        IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
        http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
        EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Our dispatch does nothing unless told.

          If a department has set up extra alarms, dispatch will use that information to send companies/departments when an extra alarm is requested. If a unit specified in the plan is known to be not available, dispatch will go back to the IC and request a solution. They will not just send the next nearest units.

          If extra alarms have not been specified, each department must be requested (although it can be in a batch).

          Because NY is a home rule state, the 'home' department is responsible for all apparatus responding. Thus all move-up requests must come from the incident commander. Departments carry "mutual aid" insurance for that reason.

          A deputy fire coordinator is probably advising the incident commander on move-ups that may be required. That's the coordinator's job.

          On some single agency calls, if the home department doesn't answer up at all after several pages, dispatch will tone the next nearest agency.

          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

          Comment


          • #6
            1 county, 13 stations. Move-ups are programmed in the CAD. If a station is 'red' for x minutes during an active incident CAD starts looking for an uncommitted engine. The station paged can decline if they would lose coverage of their first due area (iow they don't have two crews).
            At times neighboring counties ask for fill ins. Those are usually handled by one of two companies that have the manpower to absorb such a request.

            Comment


            • #7
              Other

              There are SOGs but the duty chief makes the actual decision based on expected duration of the incident triggering the move up as well as other incidents that may be going on at the same time. The company officer has little to do with the decision.

              Comment


              • #8
                The IC has more important things to worry about than who is covering where. He or she should request that covers be put in place, and dispatch handles the rest. Even better if covers are put in place immediately once the first is declared a "working fire." Most smaller departments preplan who they are calling for house coverage.

                Why does a deputy fire coordinator need to tell the IC who to use? let the IC run the incident; if anything, the deputy fire coordinator should have the authority to manage where to get additional resources that are needed at the scene. House coverage is a big picture thing, something that the IC shouldn't have to worry about (other than being told that it's been done).

                Companies should not move themselves up. free lancing is bad. dispatch is often more aware of the current call volumes, and what area within the entire city are not covered (10 houses, assuming 5 are tied up on a structure fire, that leaves a hole in the coverage area) Dispatch needs to be looking at the big picture to relocate companies to cover as much of the city as they can with limited resources.
                If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                FF/EMT/DBP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by drparasite View Post

                  Why does a deputy fire coordinator need to tell the IC who to use? let the IC run the incident; if anything, the deputy fire coordinator should have the authority to manage where to get additional resources that are needed at the scene.
                  It's the nature of the beast.

                  Our county fire coordinator and his deputy coordinators have zero authority on the fireground. If the IC wants them to go direct traffic, that's what they'll be doing.

                  It has to do with the whole "home rule" thing - the lowest level of government is in charge. If a deputy coordinator calls for additional resources or move-ups without the IC's say-so and an apparatus gets wrecked, it's on the coordinator, not the IC's department. The county does not want that liability, so the coordinators are under orders not to do so. Or to run a scene, unless it happens to be their own department, in which case they're acting for that department, not as a coordinator..

                  In practice, the deputy coordinators advise the IC (ie, the planning branch). Oftimes they'll track resources for the IC so all they have to do is let him/her know who's where, etc, if move-ups are needed, and let them call for what's needed. That lets the IC focus on the task at hand on the incident scene.

                  If a coordinator communicates such requests to dispatch, it's usually "on the orders of the IC."

                  The county fire coordinator's value comes before the incident, as he manages the mutual aid plan and assists departments with preplanning - automatics, second, and third alarms. Some departments have none of those on file - they insist they'll call what they need, when they need it. Other departments have rather involved plans, breaking their first due into zones so they can call the closest resources to each area. My department's area is broken down into two such zones.

                  Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                  Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow, the last thing I need as an IC is to be worrying about things unrelated to the incident, like back filling stations. Is your IC frequently the duty chief as well? We generally keep those two positions separate. The IC manages the incident, the duty chief ensures the department can continue to respond to new incidents.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Duty chief?

                      The IC is generally whichever chief or AC is available from the "home" department. Everyone around here is volunteer - there are no "duty chief's." As a past chief and senior member of my department, I could well end up as the IC of an incident.

                      That's the value of the deputy coordinators, as well as mutual aid chiefs who may respond - they all will end up with a position on the fireground. It's not unusual to have white hats from three or four departments operating as sector officers on the scene. There have been cases of a mutual aid chief ending up with command.

                      As I said, it's the nature of the beast.

                      I've tried to talk folks into setting up move-ups in their extra alarms, but that hasn't been well received.
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That makes more sense, but if all the departments in the area are volunteer would you even have to deal with a move up? The stations are usually unstaffed by the nature of a volunteer department.

                        Sounds like you are talking more about requesting mutual aid for the incident, or for a new incident if the whole department were involved in the first.

                        Would you bring a crew from another department in to cover a volunteer station?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Here and there View Post
                          That makes more sense, but if all the departments in the area are volunteer would you even have to deal with a move up? The stations are usually unstaffed by the nature of a volunteer department.
                          Certainly - a major fire might strip out a number of departments in one area, and with the shortage of volunteers we're all facing, that may leave an area completely uncovered. Many times that move-up apparatus is covering several normal first-due areas.

                          They're also that much closer if more resources are needed at the original incident.

                          Originally posted by Here and there View Post
                          Sounds like you are talking more about requesting mutual aid for the incident, or for a new incident if the whole department were involved in the first.
                          Anybody who is called as a result of the original incident (whether they go to the scene or simply stand by as a move-up or in their own quarters) is mutual aid for that incident and will be reported as such in the NIFRS report. If a mutual aid unit standing by goes out to cover another call in the area they are covering, it's still mutual aid, but it's a new incident.

                          Originally posted by Here and there View Post
                          Would you bring a crew from another department in to cover a volunteer station?
                          Yes - as noted in the first paragraph.

                          There are forty-two volunteer departments in this county, and two career. The career departments may come out to assist in a vollie area, but not for standbys. One career department routinely runs automatics to the volunteer areas, the other prefers not to do so. All of the departments in the border areas of surrounding counties are also volunteer. So, yes, vollie companies will be covering vollie companies. Volunteers are often called into the career department territories for coverage if the career folks get a major incident.

                          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Here and there View Post
                            That makes more sense, but if all the departments in the area are volunteer would you even have to deal with a move up? The stations are usually unstaffed by the nature of a volunteer department.
                            Unstaffed just means that there is no crew in the station. The station is still in service with the members that respond from home or work within the response window. That close in first crew is usually just enough to staff the one piece. If more people respond and the station can go back in-service, then no move-up is required.

                            Sounds like you are talking more about requesting mutual aid for the incident, or for a new incident if the whole department were involved in the first.

                            Would you bring a crew from another department in to cover a volunteer station?
                            Yes. For two reasons. A. That companies first-due area would otherwise not be covered and B. It brings an additional unit close to the incident ready to respond if the IC needs additional resources (e.g. a second tanker fill-site).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                              It's the nature of the beast.

                              Our county fire coordinator and his deputy coordinators have zero authority on the fireground. If the IC wants them to go direct traffic, that's what they'll be doing.

                              It has to do with the whole "home rule" thing - the lowest level of government is in charge. If a deputy coordinator calls for additional resources or move-ups without the IC's say-so and an apparatus gets wrecked, it's on the coordinator, not the IC's department. The county does not want that liability, so the coordinators are under orders not to do so. Or to run a scene, unless it happens to be their own department, in which case they're acting for that department, not as a coordinator..
                              So much is wrong.... liability when requesting mutual aid? easy solution: don't wreck. And of course, everything the coordinator says is at the direction of the IC; however there is no need for the IC to micromanage. the coordinators job should be to get mutual aid. Chief says it's a working fire, get me two engines and a ladder. he shouldn't care from where; the coordinator can look at the big picture, to see what else is happening around the county, and adjust accordingly.

                              Since your in NY, do you remember the pompey hill fire? Their coordinator got roasted (and rightfully so) because he was giving order ON THE FIRE SCENE. Right, or wrong, he should have gathered resources, and let running the scene to the IC. But does the IC really care who is coming when he asked for resources? he needs an engine, the assumption is they will come staffed and ready to do engine work. ditto a truck, rescue, or any other specialty piece. Their job is resource management, and if you won't let them manage resources, why are they even on the scene?

                              Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                              In practice, the deputy coordinators advise the IC (ie, the planning branch). Oftimes they'll track resources for the IC so all they have to do is let him/her know who's where, etc, if move-ups are needed, and let them call for what's needed. That lets the IC focus on the task at hand on the incident scene.
                              sounds like something dispatch can do for arranging coverage, provided you have preplanned 1st, 2nd and 3rd alarms already preplanned. Then all the IC needs to say is "make this a second alarm," and then dispatch knows exactly who to send to the scene, and who to backfill the houses with.

                              If a coordinator communicates such requests to dispatch, it's usually "on the orders of the IC."

                              Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                              The county fire coordinator's value comes before the incident, as he manages the mutual aid plan and assists departments with preplanning - automatics, second, and third alarms. Some departments have none of those on file - they insist they'll call what they need, when they need it. Other departments have rather involved plans, breaking their first due into zones so they can call the closest resources to each area. My department's area is broken down into two such zones.
                              While I totally agree with you here (and where I started in NJ has been doing that since 1999, and was in Syracuse from 2000 to 2003), then why do you want them to even respond to a scene?
                              Originally posted by Here and there View Post
                              That makes more sense, but if all the departments in the area are volunteer would you even have to deal with a move up? The stations are usually unstaffed by the nature of a volunteer department.

                              Sounds like you are talking more about requesting mutual aid for the incident, or for a new incident if the whole department were involved in the first.

                              Would you bring a crew from another department in to cover a volunteer station?
                              your right, most volunteer station are not staffed, but it's very common to backfill a department that is on a major assignment with other units (typically 1-2 engine and 1 ladder in a city, or 1 engine and 1 tanker in a county), or at least backfil the "primary stations" for said department. .Should more resources be needed (an additional alarm), these are usually the first ones requested to the scene (although I know of one paid department that operates in a unique way when it comes to this), and it shortens the time until you have those needed resources on scene. And they are able to cover the area that has the major incident until their resources are available.

                              Basically, if we are tying up all of our resources for a incident for an extended period of time, back filling the stations allows us to ensure that any additional calls that occur get answered.
                              If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                              FF/EMT/DBP

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              300x600 Forums Only

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Lower 970x90

                              Collapse

                              Lower 728x90

                              Collapse

                              Lower 300x50

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X