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Looking for two Lloyd Layman books...

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  • Looking for two Lloyd Layman books...

    Fire Fighting Tactics from 1940 and Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires from the 1950's.

    If anyone has these and would like to sell them, please contact me...

    Two departments, twice the fun...

  • #2
    Yeah Good Luck! I have been looking for both of these for about 10 years.

    But hey! If you find 2 of each I'd be interested in the spares!!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


    • #3
      Heh, I figured it's a long shot, but what the heck.
      Two departments, twice the fun...


      • #4
        Originally posted by MikeG344 View Post
        Heh, I figured it's a long shot, but what the heck.
        Indeed. Honestly, I have wondered why the NFPA hasn't reprinted them.
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


        • #5
          Watch eBay. You also might check Abe Books which is sort of a used book store data base. They even turn up on Amazon occasionally.

          Coincidentally those two books were one of my first ebay purchases about 16 years ago. I think I paid about $10 + shipping for the pair.

          They are out there, I do see them on eBay from time to time. If you are lucky no one is interested and they go cheap, I've watched bidding wars run them up to $50 or so, but never seen them go too crazy. Most people don't know what they are, even many firefighters fail to make the connection to Lloyd Layman as the RECEO guy.

          In the forward to Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires, which is dated November 1967, it is mentioned that over the past 15 years (1952-1967) NFPA had distributed more than 15,000 copies of the book. NFPA did publish these for quite a few years, the set I have, has a printing date of 1970, I have seen a set dated 1975.

          I've picked up about a dozen of the small format NFPA Fire Officer Guide series of books over the years, don't think I've ever paid more than $20, and most were more like $5-10. They may be old but much of the information is still applicable to us today. NFPA also published Firemen magazine from the 1940s into the early 1970s. Based on the books I've collected it appears NFPA got out of the training book business in the late 1970s or very early 1980s.

          I contacted NFPA last year trying to get a listing of their fire office guide series of books. I also asked why they stopped publishing these books. The reply I got essentially said that they had partnered with IFSTA and the books now come through that organization. They were unable to provide me with a listing of the older books.

          It might be worth badgering IFSTA to look into a reprint. Maybe they could offer a commemorative set for the 80th anniversary of Fire Fighting Tactics which is coming up in less than 2 years. Fire Engineering / Pennwell Books seems like a more likely suspect for something like that though. I don't know how well the 3 organizations play together.


          • #6
            Yeah, I bought my copy of the Fire Stream Management Handbook off of Abe Books for $40 USD or so when most that I found were going for 10 times that.
            Two departments, twice the fun...


            • #7
              It sounds like you are looking in the right places then. Just need to be patient and tenacious.

              Also make sure you use broad search terms to watch for them. I suspect most being sold are from estate sales or library sales so the naming and category they are found under can be strange at times as the seller really has no idea what the book is. Many probably get past the search undetected from being sold in a lot with other books.


              • #8
                Imagine my luck finding " Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires" in a local used bookstore one day. My GF collects a few authors so I've found a few finds as she hates to pass a used book store. As I recall I paid less than $10 but I've found that many of these places do their homework and know the going online rate so a cheap find is getting rarer.
                Last edited by RFDACM02; 03-09-2018, 08:49 AM. Reason: keyboard caused misspelled words


                • #9
                  I know I'd be fine with a digital copy, like a .pdf or something; I just don't want anyone breaking any copyright laws doing so.

                  There are entries on Google books for both titles, but I think they are only there for reference. No e-book download or anything.
                  Two departments, twice the fun...


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fire5555
                    OK since not in print, unless you want the book in hand, someone digital it??? And provide it somehow???

                    How many pages is it?
                    Combined 260 pages including the front covers.

                    The other issue is the scanned book would basically be sacrificed, putting it on a scanner for a good quality scan would trash the binding. Ideally you would want to use one with clean pages but a broken binding. As small hardbound text books it seems most copies found are in pretty good condition.

                    I'm not that up on copyright law, but they are copyright Lloyd Layman 1953 and 1955.

                    Google says copyright is good for 95 years, and for things copyrighted before 1978 such as these, the copyright is good for the authors life + 70 years.

                    An online obituary says Lloyd Layman died in 1968, so these books would not be public domain until 2038. Doesn't sound like he had any children, but did have siblings. Don't know who would hold the copyright, family, NFPA?

                    Anyone from Parkersberg, WV? He was the fire chief there for a couple decades, maybe there is some kind of Lloyd Layman society that might be talked into such a project?

                    Twist the arms of all the firefighters you know to start a letter writing campaign to badger NFPA to digitize and post the books? I bet they could make a couple bucks off something like that.


                    • #11
                      "The other issue is the scanned book would basically be sacrificed, putting it on a scanner for a good quality scan would trash the binding."

                      Wouldn't want that either...
                      Two departments, twice the fun...


                      • #12
                        Like you, I have been looking for Layman's hardcover books for about 15 years. I picked up a 10th edition of Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires (1980) about 15 years ago at a random book store in rural Kentucky but I have always wanted hardcover early editions.

                        Last year I found a second printing of Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires (1953) and got it for a steal compared to the prices I see. I believe the key is being patient, or splurging on something you really want. I finally found an excellent copy of Fire Fighting Tactics (1973) and paid way too much (but I really wanted it).

                        I also use bookfinder.com to find older fire books I want. I've been successful picking up Warren Kimball's Fire Attack - 1 and Fire Attack - 2 for great prices that way.

                        By the way, you can snag a softback copy (8th printing) Attacking and Extinguishing Interior Fires through bookfinder. It's on eBay but you can negotiate to $300 from what I saw on what the seller details on bookfinder.

                        Good Luck!


                        • #13
                          I got your PM Nick, thanks for pointing that out.

                          I haven't been looking too hard lately, but I still keep an eye out...
                          Two departments, twice the fun...


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