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Aggressive interior firefighting!

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  • Aggressive interior firefighting!

    Hey folks,

    Just looking to get some insight on how other depts from different states operate. I work for a dept in GA and most of the surrounding counties operate aggressively and fast. I might be looking at re-locating to FL and from what I see and hear they're progressive on ems and hard from the yard for the fire side. Not looking to start arguments just wondering. But if you aren't from Fl please comment and share your thoughts anyway!

  • #2
    The idea that an initial hit from the yard eliminates an aggressive interior attack is ridiculous. If you use a quick exterior hit to knock back the fire and then rapidly follow that up with an aggressive interior attack what's the problem with that? The issue comes in when people misuse the exterior hit as an excuse to never go in.

    Obviously not every situation calls for an exterior hit. But there are situations where that hit makes conditions better for us and for the victims.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #3
      Alabama is a mixed bag, my dept will reset the fire from the yard if the situation allows others are pretty aggressive. EMS is getting pretty progressive, the state will license at the critical care level if all requirements are meet and with that comes the ability to RSI and a ton of other stuff.
      Get the first line into operation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Florida is a big state -strategy /tactics can vary from county to county -town to town -station to station (in the same department) and even shift to shift. The Florida panhandle has some good departments -check out Escambia county --or CF tactics on facebook
        ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
          The idea that an initial hit from the yard eliminates an aggressive interior attack is ridiculous. If
          I was watching video the UL Firefighter website the other day and really took to the term they used for the exterior hit: "Knock Back". This seems to sum up the intent of the outside hit. Flowing just enough water to darken the fire and buy enough time to get to the interior point of attack under more hospitable conditions. If the point of your exterior stream is too far out of the way to get inside while conditions are still more favorable, then you opt out of "Knock Back" hit.

          I think we could easily utilize the term Knock Back to properly show how to employ this piece of an aggressive interior attack. "When presented with an exterior opening showing fire that will not require significant delay in the attack, the advancing interior team will employ an exterior firestream to achieve "Knock Back" before proceeding to the interior."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
            Florida is a big state -strategy /tactics can vary from county to county -town to town -station to station (in the same department) and even shift to shift. The Florida panhandle has some good departments -check out Escambia county --or CF tactics on facebook
            Strategy and/or tactics varying from station to station or shift to shift? This sounds entirely counter-productive if not flat out dangerous.

            Comment


            • #7
              Double post

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                Strategy and/or tactics varying from station to station or shift to shift? This sounds entirely counter-productive if not flat out dangerous.
                That's really not an unusual as you might suspect. My FD had 7 Chiefs that rotated as the Duty Chief. We had 3 stations and 3 shifts. I used to tell people we had 63 different fire departments. While we had SOGs each Captain and each Chief had their own idiosyncrasies.

                This was somewhat repaired when we went to assigned duty chiefs to a shift so the variables dropped quite a bit.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
                  I was watching video the UL Firefighter website the other day and really took to the term they used for the exterior hit: "Knock Back". This seems to sum up the intent of the outside hit. Flowing just enough water to darken the fire and buy enough time to get to the interior point of attack under more hospitable conditions. If the point of your exterior stream is too far out of the way to get inside while conditions are still more favorable, then you opt out of "Knock Back" hit.

                  I think we could easily utilize the term Knock Back to properly show how to employ this piece of an aggressive interior attack. "When presented with an exterior opening showing fire that will not require significant delay in the attack, the advancing interior team will employ an exterior firestream to achieve "Knock Back" before proceeding to the interior."
                  The other option is first line to an exterior position and the driver pulls a second line to the entry point, most often the front door. When the exterior hit is done drop that line and go for the second line and make entry.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think there's too much "Zhomygod! We always go interior!" going on with the whole "hard from the yard" concept.

                    As we've discussed here, it's just another tool in the toolbox. And, heck, if we can knock the daylights out of a fire without beating ourselves to death going interior from the outset, isn't that what it's all about? We're there to put the fire out. Who cares if the initial knockdown is from the outside and the interior folks are left to overhaul?

                    Well, aside from the "first in, last out," "see my battered helmet" types, if you know what I mean.

                    As I recall, Houston at one time used this exact tactic - with the deck gun. As appropriate, hit the fire with the deck gun, on tank water, while water supply is established. Saw a video of it somewhere.
                    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                      That's really not an unusual as you might suspect. My FD had 7 Chiefs that rotated as the Duty Chief. We had 3 stations and 3 shifts. I used to tell people we had 63 different fire departments. While we had SOGs each Captain and each Chief had their own idiosyncrasies.

                      This was somewhat repaired when we went to assigned duty chiefs to a shift so the variables dropped quite a bit.
                      I hear ya. But I got the impression it was more than "idiosyncrasies".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                        The other option is first line to an exterior position and the driver pulls a second line to the entry point, most often the front door. When the exterior hit is done drop that line and go for the second line and make entry.
                        As with every fire, the situation dictates tactics. I think the biggest point for everyone to continue to take away is getting water where it needs to go in the most expeditious manner is going to be the best option. Sometimes the "knock back" will take too long due to location, obstacles, no visible fire, etc and other times it'll be right there easy to hit and move in. Again, I'm just beating my dead horse that this is not a "specific mode of attack", but another valid option that can speed an aggressive interior attack where conditions allow or warrant it.

                        In the end, the fire isn't about us enjoying a good job, it's about ensuring lives are not lost or altered (our too) and property loss is minimized, so when we have a way to do that faster, there is no excuse not to. I liken this to the FD that goes to MVA's and cuts the crap out of the car every time totally ignoring that there is usually a faster, simpler way to remove the patient. In our area I've found this particularly true of non-EMS FD's and those who get very few extrication calls.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                          Strategy and/or tactics varying from station to station or shift to shift? This sounds entirely counter-productive if not flat out dangerous.
                          probably exaggerated a little when I said strategy - but tactics yes -
                          ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                            I hear ya. But I got the impression it was more than "idiosyncrasies".
                            Oh sometimes it was!
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree the situation dictates what strategy to use, I don't see a issue with a transition attack. But I have seen many times where some depts take there time in the front yard holding hose while the fire grows, then next thing you see is fire blowing from the eaves and roof. Aggressive interior to me means getting after it...fast, and not waiting for the 2nd due or waiting to establish water supply. The best outcome comes from putting the cool stuff on the hot stuff as quick as possible. I really only know how depts in Ga operate and I have heard some about Fl but I'm just wondering about what tactics everyone uses. I've seen volunteer depts operate smoother than paid guys in some instances.

                              Comment

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