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Ambulance used in bombing.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by johnsb View Post

    If you're targeting a specific person, it's an assassination. If you're targeting random people for political, religious, etc. change, it's terrorism. But a terrorist can also assassinate specific persons if they wish, it's still the same.
    Back to the original post. Putting an IED in a guardrail doesn't seem to me to be a particularly target rich environment for terrorism and an inefficient method of assassination. I think the average terrorist or assassin could come up with better choices.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by captnjak View Post

      Back to the original post. Putting an IED in a guardrail doesn't seem to me to be a particularly target rich environment for terrorism and an inefficient method of assassination. I think the average terrorist or assassin could come up with better choices.
      Uh, a LOT of US service members would absolutely disagree. Especially the ones missing limbs....
      Guess you've never been to Iraq...

      Comment


      • #18
        The aim of terrorism is to instill fear. If you don't know if you're going to get down the next block alive and well, they've met their goal.

        The same could be said for people not wanting an ambulance to respond to their emergency because it might level their neighborhood.
        Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

        Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by johnsb View Post

          Uh, a LOT of US service members would absolutely disagree. Especially the ones missing limbs....
          Guess you've never been to Iraq...
          No I have not been to Iraq. And I am well aware of the sacrifices made by our military without having been there. That is really another discussion entirely. I thought this thread was about terrorism. What you refer to is a military tactic. Terrorism is more about civilian targets. It is about gaining recognition for a cause and instilling fear in populations.

          Comment


          • #20
            We have been warned about this sort of thing since 9/11 should be nothing new here.
            Jason Knecht
            Firefighter/EMT
            Township Fire Dept., Inc.
            Eau Claire, WI

            IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
            http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
            EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by captnjak View Post

              No I have not been to Iraq. And I am well aware of the sacrifices made by our military without having been there. That is really another discussion entirely. I thought this thread was about terrorism. What you refer to is a military tactic. Terrorism is more about civilian targets. It is about gaining recognition for a cause and instilling fear in populations.
              Uh, have you NEVER watched the news????? They've targeted civilians numerous times in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, et al...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by johnsb View Post

                Uh, have you NEVER watched the news????? They've targeted civilians numerous times in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, et al...
                Fair enough.

                I will say that domestic terrorism is much more of a concern to me than terrorism overseas. Before you tell us that it is the same people doing it let me say that I don't much care. I will not have to respond to overseas incidents. Those incidents target foreign populations. My role is to protect life and property in my city. That is what concerns me.

                This thread was started out of concern for ambulance bombings coming here. To America. Not overseas. That is what I have responded to.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dickey View Post
                  We have been warned about this sort of thing since 9/11 should be nothing new here.
                  It's the behind the scenes intelligence - which we peons rarely hear - that matters with things like this. While the average EMS crew will never see anything like this happen, the phrase "never say never" certainly applies.

                  Intelligence (ie, the spy variety, not book learnin' or common sense) is a funny thing. Sometimes if you know something, you can't say anything about it because you'll tip off your source. An informal, word-of-mouth campaign may be the best approach - you know, just a reminder to keep a weather eye out.
                  Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                  Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johnsb View Post

                    Uh, a LOT of US service members would absolutely disagree. Especially the ones missing limbs....
                    Guess you've never been to Iraq...
                    I've never been to Iraq either. So what's your point? The obvious difference between Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the US, is we are not a war zone like both of those countries.
                    Crazy, but that's how it goes
                    Millions of people living as foes
                    Maybe it's not too late
                    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                      I've never been to Iraq either. So what's your point? The obvious difference between Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the US, is we are not a war zone like both of those countries.

                      There is no difference between the US and the Middle East. Having had my boots on the ground in the Middle East, I can assure you, that terrorists are all the same, foreign and domestic.

                      Terrorists:
                      1. Have no respect for human life.
                      2. Don't care who they hurt (women, children, etc.) and how they do it.
                      3. Can have access to technology (electronics, etc.), weapons, explosives, etc. that can create massive havoc.
                      4. Target countries, like the US, as we have a political statement (capitalism, etc.) that they despise.

                      Why should we care? Because the fire department is the first agency to arrive of any terrorist act. People can be maimed or killed.

                      The fear that terrorists can cause is this: The government cannot protect my family. When people think the government cannot protect their family, is when chaos occurs.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by FIRE117 View Post


                        There is no difference between the US and the Middle East. Having had my boots on the ground in the Middle East, I can assure you, that terrorists are all the same, foreign and domestic.

                        Terrorists:
                        1. Have no respect for human life.
                        2. Don't care who they hurt (women, children, etc.) and how they do it.
                        3. Can have access to technology (electronics, etc.), weapons, explosives, etc. that can create massive havoc.
                        4. Target countries, like the US, as we have a political statement (capitalism, etc.) that they despise.

                        Why should we care? Because the fire department is the first agency to arrive of any terrorist act. People can be maimed or killed.

                        The fear that terrorists can cause is this: The government cannot protect my family. When people think the government cannot protect their family, is when chaos occurs.
                        I'll respond by directing you to my earlier post (#22).

                        The members of this forum I would guess are predominately American firefighters. We will not be responding to overseas terrorist events.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FIRE117 View Post


                          There is no difference between the US and the Middle East. Having had my boots on the ground in the Middle East, I can assure you, that terrorists are all the same, foreign and domestic.
                          While I think we can all agree that a terrorist is a terrorist regardless of where he or she is, as noted previously (post #7) this type of "attack" seems less likely, again for reasons posted in Post #7.

                          No one is arguing that we shouldn't prepare for terrorist attacks on our soil, but realistically, our country offers many much easier/softer targets than fire trucks or ambulances. I'm guessing the same logical thoughts about protecting our apparatus applies to keeping drunks and crackheads from taking them for a joyride, something that will probably continue at a greater frequency than terrorist weaponization of emergency vehicles.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by FIRE117 View Post


                            There is no difference between the US and the Middle East. Having had my boots on the ground in the Middle East, I can assure you, that terrorists are all the same, foreign and domestic.

                            I disagree that there is no difference between the US and the Middle East. Obviously there is a culture that accepts terrorism in the Middle East that does not exist here. Or at least not at anywhere the same scale.

                            Terrorists:
                            1. Have no respect for human life.
                            2. Don't care who they hurt (women, children, etc.) and how they do it.
                            3. Can have access to technology (electronics, etc.), weapons, explosives, etc. that can create massive havoc.
                            4. Target countries, like the US, as we have a political statement (capitalism, etc.) that they despis

                            Except we are not victims of terrorism at near the rate that the Middle East or even countries in Europe does.

                            Why should we care? Because the fire department is the first agency to arrive of any terrorist act. People can be maimed or killed.

                            I never said we shouldn't care. I have taken classes on WMD and terrorism and my fervent belief is that because it is not in our mindset first responders are highly likely to be casualties. Especially in Chemical or biological attacks. The question is why aren't we subject to almost daily attacks?

                            The fear that terrorists can cause is this: The government cannot protect my family. When people think the government cannot protect their family, is when chaos occurs.

                            The governnent can't protect my family. In fact court cases have proven time and again that the police have no responsibility to prevent a violent attack on you or your family. Smart money is on protecting yourself, mostly by situational awareness.

                            Their is a HUGE difference between the protection the military offers by repelling the possibility of invasions and the ability of the beat cop to protect you against violent attack or terrorism.

                            Thank you for your service.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                              Fair enough.

                              I will say that domestic terrorism is much more of a concern to me than terrorism overseas. Before you tell us that it is the same people doing it let me say that I don't much care. I will not have to respond to overseas incidents. Those incidents target foreign populations. My role is to protect life and property in my city. That is what concerns me.

                              This thread was started out of concern for ambulance bombings coming here. To America. Not overseas. That is what I have responded to.
                              YOU'D BETTER CARE.

                              Those same kind of people are HERE, NOW. They're just waiting for the chance.
                              You'd also better start paying attention to the news and what's going on. You obviously don't know how many of these terrorist sympathizers are living in the US right now, maybe not far from where you live.

                              https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/us/oh...ack/index.html
                              https://www.ajc.com/news/national/ne...gURLDVTWFMMCP/
                              https://patch.com/ohio/columbus/ohio...ned-u-s-attack

                              I could go on, there are dozens more like this.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                                I've never been to Iraq either. So what's your point? The obvious difference between Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the US, is we are not a war zone like both of those countries.
                                We aren't a war zone YET....
                                But it wouldn't take much to make that happen.
                                15,000-20,000 Muslims living in Milwaukee....it only takes one to get radicalized...

                                http://fox6now.com/2016/01/26/fbi-ar...mass-shooting/

                                I guess WTC didn't kill enough people for you to think that it's a problem that needs to be addressed and not ignored.

                                We can't kick them out, and we cannot deny them their rights under the law. Most Muslims are probably good people. But many have not assimilated in to American culture, so there is the very distinct problem of radical groups and lone-wolfs committing terrorist acts. If people don't think that we need to keep our eyes open and be aware, then they're just stupid.

                                Comment

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