Washington Fire Deaths

[jasendorf]

Today, the Columbus Dispatch ran a letter to the editor claiming that the four firefighters killed in the blaze in Washington last month was due to an evironmental protection on the Chewuch River. I thought this was determined to be a non-issue? Am I wrong?
http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-s...01/806849.html

[BucksEng91]

If it wasn't "environmental concerns" that delayed the water scoop and drop, then what DID delay it?

[jasendorf]

I'm definitely NOT saying that it WASN'T a factor in their deaths. But I thought that I had heard that the U.S. Forest Service had denied that this was a factor.

I'm just asking if this was truly what had happened.

And to be quite truthful, there could have been DOZENS of reason for their deaths. One of which could have been some environmentalists out of control.

[eaglejoe68]

The US Forest Service will have to conduct a thorough investigation regarding these unfortunate deaths. They have to publish a report detailing their investigation. Until the report comes out, which could be months away, we will be guessing as to the causes of the tragedy.

Just my 2 cents.

[BucksEng91]

John -

I'm not challenging you for an answer. I just want to know what everyone thinks COULD be another reason to delay water scoops and drops literally for hours.

And don't be too taken in - the Forest Service is in full spin control mode now. They're saying a lot of things to try to get the attention off this tragedy. They've already changed the story three times.

The question that I want answered more than anything else is this - if it WAS environmentalist wacko concerns and/or regulations that killed these firefighters, what's going to be done about it?

[jasendorf]

I think you're baiting here, and it should be said that I am NOT a firefighter and that I don't really know jack about firefighting. But, with that said, I wouldn't doubt that sudden weather changes can affect how a fire moves or acts; inexperience or overzealousness can affect how someone acts in any situation or profession; poorly judged current conditions or topography (at the fault of the firefighters themselves or their superiors) of the area being fought; poorly constructed or improperly maintained emergency equipment. Are you saying that none of these factors could have been involved?

These are just a few of the possiblilities that I imagine could be responsible or partially responsible for their deaths. ONCE AGAIN, I am NOT a firefighter, and I truly do respect your profession. That any firefighter loses their life over a FOREST which can regrow is reprehensible to me. Are you saying that none of these factors could have been involved?

Should we blindly blame environmentalists because it is en vogue to do so? Or should we look for the real cause (including the VERY REAL POSSIBILITY THAT 'ENVIRO-WACKOS' ARE TO BLAME)?

As for answering your question. I find it odd that you want to start finding out how we can attack environmentalists before their culpability has even been established.

[nonameFF]

From what I have read in papers and such on-line, it appears to be a combination of factors that lead to the delay in the water drops:

1) Communication breakdown - it appears that someone requested the drop and someone else 'thought' you couldn't do it...
2) Uncertainty as to environmental regulations, no one seems to know if you could or couldn't dip into the river...
3) Failure to communicate with the IC regarding the perceived problem....
4) Failure to dispatch the helicopters...

Until the investigation is done, no way of really knowing what caused the delay....

I would be curious to know if there were any other water sources available?

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: no_name_FF ]

[xenophon13]

For starters does anybody out there actually think the forest service or government for that matter is going to say yeah we didn't let the water be pulled from the river so that we could save a few fish, and if 4 firefighters died oh well. That will never be said, they will just find something else to blame it on. After all when a military plane crashes have you ever noticed it is almost always called pilot error and not a mechanical one. It's a lot easier for them to place the blame on a dead body. Also several other experienced firefighters who have been to the scene all agree that the place where they deployed their rescue shelters was almost an ideal location. However, on the other side of the coin in the 6+ hours between the request for a water drop and the actual drop itself couldn't they have pulled from a different river?