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How should I inform the battalion chief and his superiors that he is full of it?

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  • How should I inform the battalion chief and his superiors that he is full of it?

    I am a probationary firefighter in a paid major city department but I already know more about firefighting than most of the clowns running this circus. I wanted to gain urban experience before settling down for a career in the suburbs. Before enrolling at the academy I already attained degrees in fire science, fire technology, and fire administration. As a volunteer I earned my FF1, FF2, EMT-P, EVOC, HazMat Tech, USAR, Advanced Vehicle Rescue, Swift Water Rescue, High Angle Rescue, Pump Operator, Aerial Operator, Fire Inspector 2, and Fire Officer 4 certifications.

    The problem is the battalion chief who oversees my engine company, its brother ladder company, and several others. The only reason he even has his job and was promoted is because this department is rife with nepotism and union cronyism, His father is a retired chief of department, grandfather was a battalion chief and his uncles and brothers are or were were lieutenants and captains with one being a LODD. The guy is a tactical buffoon who does not know a Storz coupling from a Stokes basket. He has regularly put multiple companies at risk due to his unsound judgement and blatant disregard for accepted firefighting practices and the department's own standard operating procedures. Next time he gives a ludicrous order I would like to tell him to his face that he is full of it as well as inform the chief of department and the fire commissioner however I do not wish to ruin my thus far illustrious career. How should I go about this?

  • #2
    I will respond as if your post is legitimate (doubtful). I have a couple of problems with it.

    1) "Paid major city departments" don't generally promote based on nepotism. All such departments that I am familiar with promote based on a civil service competitive testing system.

    2) I have trouble believing that any major city department would allow a chief officer to "regularly put multiple companies at risk".

    3) You say you don't want to ruin your "thus far illustrious career". You are still on probation. You have barely started your career. And what is so illustrious about posting your problems on this forum? Your entire department is a "circus" run by "clowns'? So it's not just the one guy you have a problem with?

    4) You are over-valuing all those degrees and certifications. I work for the most "major" of all city departments. No one here cares much about those things. They care about firefighters proving themselves on real world fire grounds. No knock on education and training but education without experience doesn't amount to much more than potential. As in you have the potential for an illustrious career.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by fire5555
      Start you own fire department ????
      Sounds like the best answer. It appears this Proby has every certificate available but little experience, thus when things aren't as cut and dry as IFSTA or Bartles and James makes them out to be it must be all wrong.

      How about starting with your own Lt or Capt? It would seem far less likely anyone will be willing to listen to a probationary firefighter, especially one who immediately lists their certificates as proof of knowledge. Given your attitude, it is unlikely you'll every find a department that fits your high expectations.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by APerfectProbie View Post
        I am a probationary firefighter in a paid major city department but I already know more about firefighting than most of the clowns running this circus. I wanted to gain urban experience before settling down for a career in the suburbs. Before enrolling at the academy I already attained degrees in fire science, fire technology, and fire administration. As a volunteer I earned my FF1, FF2, EMT-P, EVOC, HazMat Tech, USAR, Advanced Vehicle Rescue, Swift Water Rescue, High Angle Rescue, Pump Operator, Aerial Operator, Fire Inspector 2, and Fire Officer 4 certifications.

        So what? How much real world firefighting experience do you have? How old are you? The problem with too many super heroes like you today is that they go to class after class after class and pile on certs with no real world knowledge of ANYTHING fire service related. No, I am not opposed to getting certs, I have a stack of my own, but the difference between you and me is I don't feel any need to parade them around like they make me an expert. I have 40 years in the fire service and I am STILL going to classes and adding more paper to my stack. I have earned respect in my area by DOING things not slapping people with a stack of paper and demanding respect.

        On what vast experience do you base your accusations against your Chiefs and Officers of your department? How many years of experience do you have? Let alone command experience. You sound like a typical new wave book cert learned firefighter that believes that is everything there is to know.


        The problem is the battalion chief who oversees my engine company, its brother ladder company, and several others. The only reason he even has his job and was promoted is because this department is rife with nepotism and union cronyism, His father is a retired chief of department, grandfather was a battalion chief and his uncles and brothers are or were were lieutenants and captains with one being a LODD. The guy is a tactical buffoon who does not know a Storz coupling from a Stokes basket. He has regularly put multiple companies at risk due to his unsound judgement and blatant disregard for accepted firefighting practices and the department's own standard operating procedures. Next time he gives a ludicrous order I would like to tell him to his face that he is full of it as well as inform the chief of department and the fire commissioner however I do not wish to ruin my thus far illustrious career. How should I go about this?

        I guess it's too bad your Daddy wasn't Chief there because as smart as you think you are you would be Chief by now.

        How should you go about telling a Chief officer that YOU as a Probie know more than them? Here's a suggestion, text it to them from the unemployment line. You do know that while you are on probation you can be fired for absolutely no reason at all and you have no recourse. Of course a guy of your vast knowledge knew that...Right?
        My advice is pretty simple:

        1) Shut up and get through probation without getting fired, OR

        2) Quit. My bet is you won't be missed in the least.
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment


        • #5
          don't feed the troll
          ?

          Comment


          • #6
            The next time that Chief gives an order that you don't like, you walk right up to him, and point your finger right into his shoulder, and say "Fuchk you, and your lousy order."

            Everyone will look up to you and respect you for bypassing your company-level officer.
            "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

            Comment


            • #7
              I am only a probie within the limited realm of this department, not within the vast world of firefighting. You cannot compare someone whose only training was at the municipal academy and on the job to someone who sought and attained multiple degrees and was FF2 and officer qualified before even setting foot at the academy. I could have probably landed a nice gig in the suburbs and been a chief within a few years.but wanted to run where the action is for a while.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by APerfectProbie View Post
                You cannot compare someone whose only training was at the municipal academy and on the job to someone who sought and attained multiple degrees and was FF2 and officer qualified before even setting foot at the academy.
                True enough, no comparison, one of the two likely has proven his worth along the way, the other is completely theoretical until proven. I've worked with firefighters with degrees and all the certs before they were hired and found they had little to no gain over the hardworking kid that took the test. Later in life maybe those degrees will help, but for now, they're a major impediment as they seem to have filled up all the space with theoretical knowledge and pushed common sense out to make room.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by APerfectProbie View Post
                  I am only a probie within the limited realm of this department, not within the vast world of firefighting. You cannot compare someone whose only training was at the municipal academy and on the job to someone who sought and attained multiple degrees and was FF2 and officer qualified before even setting foot at the academy. I could have probably landed a nice gig in the suburbs and been a chief within a few years.but wanted to run where the action is for a while.
                  Why run where the action is? Would it be to gain some experience? Or do you not even need it? You are just doing it for fun?

                  All of those whom you blasted in your original post have been "running where the action is" for decades. Maybe you should STFU and accomplish what you went there to accomplish.

                  I taught at the Probationary Firefighter School full time for two separate one year stints. As instructors, none of us wanted to know anything about prior experience. We often felt it was a negative. We wanted to teach OUR way to OUR probies. And we didn't want any students thinking they already knew everything.

                  Lastly, what does "officer qualified" even mean? I have my standards of what qualifies a person as a fire officer. I seriously doubt you meet them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by captnjak View Post
                    I taught at the Probationary Firefighter School full time for two separate one year stints. As instructors, none of us wanted to know anything about prior experience. We often felt it was a negative. We wanted to teach OUR way to OUR probies. And we didn't want any students thinking they already knew everything.
                    I've heard of at least one department that thinks that way - everybody goes through the academy so they can learn it their way. Period. I seriously doubt they are the only department that thinks that way.

                    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I should point out that this is for purposes of uniformity and not arrogance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Assuming this post is legit.

                        Back when I was a rookie we had company officers who were functionally illiterate. They were hired at a time when hiring standards were pretty low.

                        After the first time I followed an operational order that could have killed me I determined that I alone was responsible for my personal safety.

                        I didn't tell anyone they were "full of it." I just managed to avoid following an order from a buffoon (and there were many) that I believed was not safe.

                        Anyone who believes that even large urban departments have no nepotism or cronyism is woefully naive.
                        They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                        I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by APerfectProbie View Post
                          I am only a probie within the limited realm of this department, not within the vast world of firefighting. You cannot compare someone whose only training was at the municipal academy and on the job to someone who sought and attained multiple degrees and was FF2 and officer qualified before even setting foot at the academy. I could have probably landed a nice gig in the suburbs and been a chief within a few years.but wanted to run where the action is for a while.
                          Dude, YOU ARE A PROBIE, PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION. You are a new hire and whatever you bring, and honestly it sounds like nothing but book learning and certs with no real world firefighting experience, means jack squat. Shut up, learn their way, or quit. Of course you are responsible for your safety but honestly you sound like so many text book commandos I have met that talk a great game until the schitt hits the fan and then they are as useless as tits on a boar because they were too phucking arrogant about the paper they have to actually learn the job.

                          What is your ACTUALLY firefighting experience? Other than being a know it all probie? Not paper, not classes, actual firefighting experience?

                          Crazy, but that's how it goes
                          Millions of people living as foes
                          Maybe it's not too late
                          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                            Assuming this post is legit.

                            Back when I was a rookie we had company officers who were functionally illiterate. They were hired at a time when hiring standards were pretty low.

                            After the first time I followed an operational order that could have killed me I determined that I alone was responsible for my personal safety.

                            I didn't tell anyone they were "full of it." I just managed to avoid following an order from a buffoon (and there were many) that I believed was not safe.

                            Anyone who believes that even large urban departments have no nepotism or cronyism is woefully naive.
                            This is funny coming from a guy that has done absolutely nothing on here to even prove he is a firefighter. Remember he recommended nitro for a psyche issue...
                            Last edited by FyredUp; 05-02-2017, 01:31 PM.
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                              Assuming this post is legit.

                              Back when I was a rookie we had company officers who were functionally illiterate. They were hired at a time when hiring standards were pretty low.

                              After the first time I followed an operational order that could have killed me I determined that I alone was responsible for my personal safety.

                              I didn't tell anyone they were "full of it." I just managed to avoid following an order from a buffoon (and there were many) that I believed was not safe.

                              Anyone who believes that even large urban departments have no nepotism or cronyism is woefully naive.
                              Someone who understands where I am coming from.

                              This buffoon battalion chief cannot read smoke to save his own ***, He likes to order crews interior when no lives are in danger, the property is a lost cause, and a defensive attack is what is warranted, Doesn't wait for the second due to have a backup line in place. Rarely readies the rapid intervention intervention go team. Sends ladder companies to roofs that are about to collapse. Leaves occupied exposures unprotected, Won't take multiple hydrants just in case. The chief of the department and the commissioner are just as big clowns for putting up with his antics. I respected ,my instructors at the academy and this departments way of doing things. Too bad this *** clown doesn't.

                              Someone asked what I meant by being officer qualified. I earned my Fire Officer 1,2,3, and 4 certifications while attending college. I was a junior firefighter from the age of 14. As soon as I turned 18 and able to participate in the required structural burn training I earned my FF1 and FF2. I worked as a volunteer and paid on call while earning my numerous certifications and attending college for six years as I pursued multiple degree paths. After college I decided to join a city department within two years while I am still in prime shape and here I am.

                              Comment

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