poor attitude of new firefighter

[A Lieutenant]

a new firefighter who seems to have a chip on his shoulder Why? I don't know. New Firefighters are expected to do it all around the firehouse to gain acceptence and learn the ropes. He does just enough. And doesnt seem to care. Has had senior firefighters tell him to do things and he has either done it or ignored them. After a good talking to the officer things improve slightly then back to the old ways. Doesnt really try to fit in. Has he been treated differently cause hes another race? Yes he has. Had he not been different he probally would have been told flat out whats wrong with him and already been punched out. No ones given him a hard time. This attitudes been since day one. Any thoughts?

[Michelle Latham]

Maybe this new firefighter has never been a part of a team or a family before and he doesn't know the "ropes". Has anyone tried to find his good qualities and show him some acceptance and kindness? Sometimes those who drive us insane the most are the ones who need us the most. I'm not saying it's all up to you and your fire department to get this guy to wake up and smell the coffee. I'm just saying maybe there is more to him then meets the eye and he is either an uncaring lump-on-a-log or he's so new to being part of a close-knit family that he doesn't have a clue how to act. We are usually the product of our environment. If you can't befriend him because he drives you batty is there anyone on your fire department that you could talk to and ask if they will befriend him and try to show him the ropes without alienating him because he is different? There's usually a few people on each fire department that have this amazing capacity of loving the most irritating people known to Man Kind. Maybe they can help the new firefighter become a genuine team member.
And remember this: Things take time.
Just my humble young Probie opinion...

[chris7]

A bit strong feelings there Lt. just remember you were a new f/f once and people probably looked down upon you as a nuisance. I know the feeling of being new twice, first the infantry and then the fire service.i found it easier to be accepted to the army than fittting in to the fire service as you realize alot is on the line when you become such an important (small) cog in a big machine. Try giving the f/f what they feel would be an important job . And then judge him on his abillity to show some maturity .Then praise the good work cos beleive there is nothing more demorilising than everybody constantly critising you . I know i have been that f/f yet after the correct treatment i am loving life up the ranks . Good luck !

[huff317]

Doesn't really try to fit in?

that pretty much sums up the situation for me. I would tell him to start makin bricks or hit the bricks. Ain't no excuse for getting a job like this and acting like that, not if you want to keep same. So, unless you want to keep a potential life threatening problem (after all, won't listen to orders...), get rid of him, one way or another.
And another thing, i personally think you had the right idea about punching him out, if nothing else works--ain't nobody gonna put me in more danger/risk than I need to be, just because of an attitude.
Boy, you sure touched a nerve with me!
Good luck, bro.

[FireCapt1951retired]

Lt,

Does your department require monthly evaluations of this member ( is he a probationary F.F.)? If so have the officer state the problems in the evaluation.

Race is irrelevant, talk to and treat him just as you would any other individual who is becoming a load and causing problems for the company.

As suggested in another post, find someone who may be able to get the point accross. If not then it's time for you to have a talk with the chief or who ever has the authority to get rid of this person.

By your profile you must work for the F.D.N.Y.
and if so, find the house of purgatory and have him transfered there. Most larger departments seem to have that sort of house.

I don't know the individual or the crew he works with but sounds like you need to deal with it now and not later. He's not of another race, he's a firefighter and should be treated as such, nothing more, nothing less!

[ 08-19-2001: Message edited by: FireLt1951 ]

[ 08-19-2001: Message edited by: FireLt1951 ]

[ggtruckie]

We've had this problem.
Set a standard for rookies and make them follow it. We tell all our Rookies that if they are seen sitting down not doing anything they will be immediatly quized on something they should know, if they don't know it, strike one. We have told all our members to do this to them. And if the rookies seem to start to get it and are doing good, we give em a change to rest. dont get me worng we dont run some kind of work camp, but it is pretty close, and the Rif-Raf is out on thier butt pretty quick.

[toneloc177]

. . . and i thought it was only in my company.

The Senior guys are the ones that should put this guy in place first, not the officers. They have just as loud if not LOUDER a voice, because they know the deal. I'm not saying that they should be like, 'Because you're a f*kin probie' all the time, but they should definately set the younger guys on the right path, with just about everything! If an Officer goes off on this guy, 'It's racial, he just doesn't like me' or Lt. was unproffessional, etc. If a Senior guy goes off, it's more like 'Whoa, Steve was ****ed about Probie xyz!'

The Senior guys are your next line officer in the absence of any.

[truckie_ladderco_147]

You hit the nail there tone! Most officers seem timid around newbies anymore(if they are of another sex or race ) and the senior guys who become the mentor basicly for these people help that officer out in a big way.
The senior member is looked at as "one of the back steppers"not "the clown with the heavy siren foot".Plus us senior guys can get away with sayin"Hey probie lead follow or get the f#*k out of my way!"Sometimes all it takes is a senior guy to straighten them out and you will get a good member.(just make sure the mentor is a guy you want a twin to)

[Grit76]

Race doesn't matter?

From the description, it sounds to me like this probie is making race matter. It's called "playing the race card". It used to be that race was used to obtain equal treatment. Now it's used to receive special treatment.

Go ahead and jump all over me. I stand by the observations I make with my own two eyes. Nothing else.

LT, how much of this you can put up with in NY depends on the current climate up there. Is political correctness being forced down your throat, or will you really treat him like any other new boot?

Good luck Brutha...........

[sloepoke1]

OK yall don't go off on me but I am going to play devil's advocate on this one, just to prove what sorry shape this country is in!
Since this person is of a different "race" he must be treated with kid gloves or he will hire a laywer and sue for racial discrimination. If this person was female then she would have to be handled with a different set of gloves or she also will go out and hire a laywer and sue for sexual herassment. Just look at the FDNY , was it June or July? The ffer's that sued for freedom of religon over thier hair style and WON!!!!!

Enough of that crap I really agree with grit that "race",man I hate that word when used this way. We are all members of the Human Race regaurdless of color.
Anyway Lt I believe that you should treat this newbie the same as the rest, don't give him any special "breaks" just because of skin color. Shoot if thats the case I will come up and paint my self red, to match my neck , just to have an easy job.

Either way you go Lt. GOOD LUCK I feel you are going to need it with this one.

Stay Safe God Bless

[Torched Medic]

I agree with most of what has been said. Approach this person systematically. 1. Find a mentor if possible.
2. Officers need to document the insubordinations. This act in itself will address the safety issues AND lay the legal ground work for potential elimination of this person from the department.
3. I agree sloepoke1. Race should not be an issue. We are all pink and gray on the inside and bleed red.

Good luck with this person. Hopefully you can make a good firefighter out of him.

[NYSmokey]

sloepoke1 stated:

Just look at the FDNY , was it June or July? The ffer's that sued for freedom of religon over thier hair style and WON!!!!!

Somebody help me out...wasn't that case in D.C.F.D. not F.D.N.Y? Maybe I missed something. Wouldn't be the first time

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: NY Smokey ]

[E-14]

This sounds like the same guy that i was passed up for. gotta love it. By the way is this from perry?

[toneloc177]

Smokey, i don't think it was fdny. Don't remember hearing anything resembling a hair style thing.

[sloepoke1]

Sorry smokey you are probably right. I just got back from an over night run and was tired.