Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact [email protected]
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

When do chief's respond?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When do chief's respond?

    I've been reading these for a while and need to get some help here. I understand, that fire departments are different sizes and everyone is different.

    I'm a battalion chief on a small combination fire department. We have six stations (two are full-staffed, two have combo staff and two are fully volunteer staffed). When I'm on duty I oversee the average of 22 firefighter's from those stations staffing four apparatuses and three ambulances. We average 7,000 calls per year.

    I responded on all alarms as the shift commander except low priority medical (cuts, falls, sick). My shift usually averages 12 calls, which leaves me limited time to complete paperwork including filling OT/sick positions, observing training and visiting with crews or going to staff meetings.

    Any suggestions on what calls chief's should response to and which ones we can skip? Any sample SOPs I could share with our district board to show we don't need to respond on alarm drops and arrests.

    Thanks
    Steve
    Last edited by BCFD-Batt2; 11-08-2016, 09:41 AM.

  • #2
    Hope for the best, and expect the worst.

    I think that most folks agree that an automatic fire alarm deserves the same respect you'd give a working fire. You may roll on 99 AFAs that are nothing, but number 100...

    That said - I would suggest that you look at what's required, manpower-wise for your various responses. Can the first due officer handle the incident? Medicals, CO alarms (no symptoms), other single company responses probably don't require a chief.

    Any response involving multiple companies needs a chief. Your first due officer (captain, LT, etc) will have enough to do with his/her own company.

    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Right about the time things are going well.

      Chief
      Has
      Arrived
      On
      Scene
      They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

      I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

      Comment


      • #4
        Let your Officers do their job and manage their own small incidents. You should respond to structure fires, major gas leaks, entrapment/rescue, etc.. anything requiring incident command. The more calls you respond to, the Officers will think you aren't confidant in their abilities and loose faith in themselves.

        As for automatic alarms, I don't give them the same respect as a working fire. Alarms happen multiple times per shift and only once in 16 years has one ever turned into a working fire. It's a still alarm and one pumper can handle it. For us, it is usually a wiring problem or the building lost electricity. Treating every alarm like a working fire is like treating every wreck like an entrapment or every medical call like an arrest.
        "In general terms, firefighting isn't always about putting the fire out; its about making sure anything else doesn't catch on fire. What's burned is burned. Once you understand this, your tunnel vision is replaced by effective strategy."

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you all, this is great. My hope would be that company officers could handle the one company responses because the command structure is very local.

          I was hired on from another department where the captains could manage two company's and anything more would require a chief officer. This single company response requiring a chief is a lot of response for very little management where we already have managers onscene.

          Suggestions are accepted how to approach my fire chief to share pros/cons of changing my responses.

          Comment


          • #6
            I work for a small combination department as well. We cover 172 square miles from 6 stations as well as a National Guard Facility of 26 square miles. We do about 1800 runs per year.

            Our daytime staffing includes a paid Chief, Fire Prevention/Incident Safety Officer (myself), a Shift Captain, a Shift Driver/Firefighter and a part-time Daytime Firefighter position. The parish EMS agency also staffs a medic unit at our station. At least one member is cross-trained to drive and pump the engine housed at the station and the unit will go out of service allowing the member to cross the floor to the engine on structural fires. They are supported by a daytime volunteer response of 8-10 members, though at times it may fluctuate high or low.

            Generally speaking, our Chief will respond on all reported structure fires, MVCs where dispatch does not indicate minor injuries and brush fires during times of moderate to high fire danger. The Chief may also respond on EMS codes or reports of significant trauma.

            The Chief generally does not respond on alarms, smoke investigations, car fires, minor brush fires, trash/dumpster fires and other calls that can be handled by the on-duty crew and volunteers.

            There will be times that he may respond if manpower levels are low due to an unfilled shift or training, and may respond if we are working multiple runs.
            Train to fight the fires you fight.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am a part-time Training Chief, Fire 4, for a combination department. The only time I respond is if there is a need for multiple apparatus and even then unless the company officer wants to pass command I ask them what they want and go to work. Company officers will never learn how to command a scene if they are never allowed to be command.
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BCFD-Batt2 View Post
                Suggestions are accepted how to approach my fire chief to share pros/cons of changing my responses.
                Just be blunt with him and explain why a Chief is needed or not needed at certain calls. If a Chief responds to every call, then the role of a company officer becomes null making it look like the department is trying to micro-manage everyone. It's also dangerous to have unnecessary apparatus responding to an incident. Tell him that the company officers are there for a reason and they should be allowed to manage as their job requires. Once an incident becomes larger then a single engine company or two, a Chief should brought in to effectively manage span of control.

                I also work for a combination dept doing over 8,000/year, and you won't see a Chief unless it's a working fire or something serious. We have a training program in place for company officers where they learn incident command prior to promotion, and they are required to assume command of any working fire incident until the arrival of a Chief.

                "In general terms, firefighting isn't always about putting the fire out; its about making sure anything else doesn't catch on fire. What's burned is burned. Once you understand this, your tunnel vision is replaced by effective strategy."

                Comment


                • #9
                  MrYuk that's easier said then done. The chief is a very smart man, but needs to have analytical and logical approaches presented in order to consider changes. Some feed back here will be used to address this with him.

                  I also recommended that the officers ride along with chiefs one per month as they get closer to promotion for more experience.

                  Thanks
                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My career job allows three companies to work under the command of the senior officer such as entrapment accidents. Anything with four or more units gets a chief officer.

                    My POC department send a chief on any two station response (smoke inside conditions, major gas leaks, residential or commercial structure fires, entrapment accidents and the like. The thought is that a chief can command while that officer can assist crews.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Something we have a problem with here in the sticks is the home chief having to literally morph from what amounts to a company officer (at a minor incident) to a full-fledged incident commander (at a major incident). Getting them to step back and run the whole incident is a challenge - they usually want to maintain control of operations, at the very least.

                      Drills notwithstanding, major incidents are few and far between - which makes practical application of incident command for larger incidents a rare event.
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I work full-time for a career, municipal agency with 17 stations. I also work part-time for a combination department with one station.

                        At my career job, the Battalion Chiefs respond to fires, gas leaks, and vehicle accidents with entrapment or with a person pinned. I can only speak for my shift, but micromanagement is kept to a minimum. Even on working fires, the BC's typically give the Captain of the first-due unit the option of having command of the incident, or passing over command to a BC. The BC's typically will serve as a safety officer and a communications liaison, unless otherwise requested. The system works very well.

                        At my part-time job, we run a lot with one of our neighboring departments. They have a chief check en route to just about every call-even minor EMS calls. For the life of me, I can't understand that. You should trust your guys to be able to handle themselves on most small incidents.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NCFF2014 View Post
                          I work full-time for a career, municipal agency with 17 stations. I also work part-time for a combination department with one station.

                          At my career job, the Battalion Chiefs respond to fires, gas leaks, and vehicle accidents with entrapment or with a person pinned. I can only speak for my shift, but micromanagement is kept to a minimum. Even on working fires, the BC's typically give the Captain of the first-due unit the option of having command of the incident, or passing over command to a BC. The BC's typically will serve as a safety officer and a communications liaison, unless otherwise requested. The system works very well.

                          At my part-time job, we run a lot with one of our neighboring departments. They have a chief check en route to just about every call-even minor EMS calls. For the life of me, I can't understand that. You should trust your guys to be able to handle themselves on most small incidents.
                          What is the logic behind having a chief respond to a working fire and then leaving it up to a company officer to act as incident command? Doesn't he have his own company to run? Isn't he engaged in carrying out tactical objectives?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by captnjak View Post

                            What is the logic behind having a chief respond to a working fire and then leaving it up to a company officer to act as incident command? Doesn't he have his own company to run? Isn't he engaged in carrying out tactical objectives?

                            Giving the Captain of the first-arriving unit the option to take command helps give him/her experience commanding a working incident at the chief-level. For Captains that have ambition of moving beyond the Captain rank, this experience is beneficial when it comes time to engage in the promotional process, or when they promote and are in charge of incidents as a BC. Of course, this is just an option. Sometimes, the Captain turns down the option, and sometimes (fire with a life hazard), it isn't an option.

                            In most conditions we don't have to wait long for backup-we are usually right on top of each other at fires, so tactical objectives can be accomplished quickly regardless of if a Captain or a BC is the one calling the shots.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm still confused as to why a BC would give a company officer the option of commanding a working structural fire while at the same time that officer maintains direct supervision over his own company. It defies the whole point of having a tired rank structure which is in place to manage both strategic and tactical functions in a safe and efficient manner. Training future chiefs is a worthy goal but goals have to be prioritized.
                              We have senior captains or those already on a promotion list act as battalion chiefs occasionally. But they do it for the entire tour and do not act as a supervisor in their own company that tour. It is either one or the other.
                              FTR, I personally disagree with the policy.
                              Last edited by captnjak; 11-28-2016, 09:18 AM.

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X