NFPA ARE THEY SERIOUS???

[SQUAD5]

has anybody ever really read some of the NFPA recommendations? did you notice that they contradict themselves. take 1710 & 1720 it was a good effort but it's not going to work. What we need to do as departments is educate the right people in government about what we need and why we need it instead of just asking for it, and taking no for an answer. The cops did it and look they get everything they ask for know. The fire act is a good start but instead of 100,000,000. we asked for over a billion which shows just how bad we need help and that if we get the money needed we will save more lives "like our own" and the citizens we protect. to sum it up to many stupid people in all the wrong places.

[Dalmatian90]

Does anyone know what NFPA stands for?

(warning, trick question...)

[distchief60b]

In answer to your question....yes..they are serious... Do we/I agree with all the standards? Well...No...but I do believe int he ones that are specifically targeted to safety.

1710 and 1720 will do much for staffing issues we all grip about..me included...

But...as with anything...the "Standard" is an accepted and approved practice developed by a groupd of "experts" if you chose to follow the standard and can...GREAT! If you chose to snub your nose at it and not go by it...you will be ok...UNTIL...someone gets hurt. Then...some scum bag lawyer will ultimately find his way to that standard and hang the fire department out to dry that does not follow it.

So....just be careful....and make good decisions.

My Opinion

[Truckman22122]

Dalmation,

NFPA=Not for Practical Application

[Dalmatian90]

Hehehehe, but that's not the answer I was looking for...

[Double_Local]

Around here it's usually referred to as above: Not For Practical Application, but I've also heard it as:
National For Profit Association

[SQUAD5]

Thanks everyone for responding back. I guess I just might be venting, but it seems when everybody is talking about this they refer to them as standards which they're not. they're only recommendations, and since they are just that how do they think that if it may work in cities like N.Y. or Chicago that it's going to work in smalltown U.S.A. where they may only have a budget of $5,000.00 a year, and equipmant is very outdated but works as well as new stuff. some stuff like 1582 & 1901 & 02 are wastes. Take 1582 it states that vision shall be no less than 20/30 binocular corrected and 20/100 uncorrected. First binocular means with both eyes open. There was someone who wrote previously about being denied by Balto because of this and he has experience up to engineer status. What ever happened to the old days where is you could perform at the level expected then it didn't matter if you were 20/20 or totally blind. There is a new post asking about prostetic limbs and you don't think people are question if that safe. or 1901 & 02 for veichle specs who are they to tell us what kind of lights we can have or how many feet or ground ladders we need. Everybody say it's about our saftey so if it is shouldn't we be the ones that make the desicion. it just seems that they make this like a factory and all depts. no matter size paid volly etc will all be the same. I guess I'm just venting for years of frustration.

[1261Truckie]

Can Man,
You are entitled to vent, firefighting today can, at times, be a very frustrating activity. And, it seems, whenever we turn around there is another regulation, rule, recommendation, standard or government agency frustrating us even more.
BUT, there are many ways to look at this issue. Do we need a better (safer) way to do our jobs? I think we do. We are continuing to die in the line of duty every year, in outrageous numbers, for a variety of reasons. I think one of the main reasons is we are constantly be asked/told to do more with less (i.e. reduced manpower). Every time a municipal government wants to "trim" its budget, where does the axe fall? On the FIRE DEPARTMENT. When I was associated with the FDNY (1968 to 1975 as an active Auxiliary) we ran with 5/6 on an engine and 6/7/on a truck. Now, while FDNY still maintains a decent manning level, look at the Houston FD. Their trucks frequently run with 3 people onboard. And the mayor of Houston continues to "vow to do something about the problem" while actually ignoring it. Houston here is only an example, this is happening everywhere. And, you can bet that with a reduced budget for the fire department everything else (apparatus, tools and training) suffer as well as manpower.
It is in a situation like this that a group like NFPA tries to do something. Are 1710 & 1720 the ultimate answer? Probably not, but I'll bet 1710/1720 have a lot of "elected officials" wondering who they now steal from to pay for fire.
And finally, we have to look at ourselves. You see, again in my opinion, we are part of our own problem. When we do not wear SCBA, inferior fire clothing, poor eye protection do not train seriously and continue to ride on an exposed/open part of our trucks, we are adding to the burden and clearing a path for the NFPA and similar groups (OSHA included) to come in and tell us how to do our jobs.
I've probably rambled on long enough, but thanks for the opportunity.
Remember, LET'S BE CAREFUL OUT THERE !!!
1261 Truckie

[huff317]

1261truckie
You ain't kiddin' about HFD, those dudes are hurtin for certain. Makes me wish I hadn't been screwed on my training record and had attained FF 1 to go do the "fast track" bit for them and get on a truck myself.

canman
This is THE premier place for venting, bro. And I'm here to tell ya, SOME people might even DISAGREE with you, too!
Keep it comin, though, it's vents like that that usually start a good thread, and I don't know about you but I am hooked on these things, can read em for hours. Y'all have no idea how much your opinions and posts are valued, there is actually a large amount of information to be LEARNED, if you sort through some attitude, jabs, and opinions, some of these guys are downright smart. ( will not name any, cause that list could go on forever, but a couple have more than 500 posts.)

dalmation90
Did you ever find the answer (NFPA) that you were looking for, or can it be printed in the presence of ladies? (Notice I wrote ladies, not females!) Still grinnin about Not for practical application! How true!
Y'all take care now...........

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: huff317 ]

[Dalmatian90]

No, no one's got the answer yet.

The irony is it's not a "funny" acronym I'm looking for, but what today the letters NFPA stand for, officially, no kidding.

Anyone, anyone...

[Double_Local]

National Federation of Paralegal Associations
National Fluid Power Associatioin
National Food Processors Association
National Flight Paramedics Association
Northern Forest Products Association
North Fraser Port Authority
National Forest Protection Alliance
National Foster Parent Association
and last, but not least:
National Fire Protection Association

[Dalmatian90]

Almost Double Local!

You'd think that was it...

But...

NFPA no longer stands for **ANYTHING** There just some letters.

The National Fire Protection Association changed it's name at some point in the last few years to NFPA International.

Just something to think about as they change their focus from fire protection association to becoming a code development organization.

[glowpop]

CANMAN
Know your frustration brother, and I feel your pain. Just try and sort out those standards with others such as BOCA and IBC and see how many contradictions are there. Talk about confusion.

But I agree with 1261 Truckie when he says that we have brought some of this on ourselves. I can remember going down the street puttin' the gear on, on the back step of the engine with the buckles of the coat hitting the pavement.

I thought that NFPA stood for Not For Profit Association, but we're gonna charge you alot for everything despite the fact that your a member. I guess that would be too much.

Just my two cents worth and that won't even buy one.

[CollegeBuff]

Oh, all right.....

NOT [email protected] PRACTICED HERE!!!!!

[distchief60b]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I read all of them with interest and was going to have no further comment. But...after reading Collegebuff's comments I had to say....

I am offended that someone from a town that lost 6 brothers not that long ago would make such a comment.

The Standards are there...If you chose to follow them...GREAT! If you dont....and something happens...you better watch out because someone is gonna get you....IE...recent SC unfortunate event.

No matter what it stands for...NFPA IS A RECOGNIZED AGENCY THAT DEVELOPES PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.....We may not agree with them all...but we got to live with it.