Out of State Training..."IS IT WORTH ANYTHING?"

[boobarrie]

I have been in the fire service for 5 years now. Most of my training was "EARNED" in a fire academy in New Jersey where I was living. I moved back to Texas about 2 years ago and thought that with the number of training certificates I had "EARNED" that I would be welcomed in with open arms. HAHAHA! The dept I joined was so STUPID. They made me come to the fire house all the time to look over the trucks..ok, no prob. After 2 months of that, as well as starting my 13 training meeting requirement, I asked the chief when I was to get gear. I put in a lot of time "Looking and learning the apparatus" and was looking fwd to helping my new brothers. Then they had the nerve to put me through a "ROOKIE" class By the way..80% paid dept!!
I finally got gear and was there for a yr and a half and moved out of my parents house (as it was temp home to get back on feet). I left on good terms and decided at the end of my lease for the apt, I would love to move back and continue my vol. at that FD. I called the chief and asked him and was told that I would start where I left off. The thing I didn't realize was that the training officer didn't accurately credit my training hours for SFFMA. I looked at it after I left and found hours missing that I know I have! He didn't know so he guessed, I think. But When I did move back, I started not from my last point...but back to a "ROOKIE".

That leaves me wondering...Is all my training up in smoke?? Not worth the match they lit them on fire with? I am looking to move (again) to find a dept that wants an experienced vol. firefighter to be part of a team..and do the job.....Is that too much to ask????

[Rescue101]

Training is never "Up in smoke".What you have is a box of "Tools".When you start,you have an empty box.As you train you start filling the box.Now unless you give that box to somebody,it's yours with everything you've put in it to use.Now someplaces you go may not allow you to use all your "tools".But they are still available to keep you safe and for you to use.You and you alone can determine if where you and your tools are trying to get to is where you should/or need to be.Every Dept. has issues.What's yours?If your current situation can't be made workable what else is nearby?Good luck!T.C.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

If you have copies of your training records with that department and can produce them, I don't see a problem with them letting you take up where you left off. If they want you to repeat basic training, just do it...you will already have a head start and you can always learn something new.

[ADSNWFLD]

For only 5 years in you have quite the attitude. Most deopartments I have encountered are just like the one you have described. From a management standpoint if they just assume you know everything and on a scene you don't know how to do something what happens? Someone has to show you, or it isn't done right and things have to be modified to work around what you did. It can cause a lot of confusion and at the worst get someone hurt.
What you call stupid is the norm in most places. What rescue 101 said is very correct.
You have tools that you can use, the best tool is the ability to be humble. You may actually know more that some more senior department members but it is their department. Play the game by their rules or get off of the field.

[Dalmatian90]

Then they had the nerve to put me through a "ROOKIE" class

Good for them. Can't help to review the basics from the ground up, and give everyone a time to get adjusted to different styles.

13 Training meetings? Quit your bitching and go through them. I agree with ADSN/WFLD -- you seem to have quite an attitude.

Besides, you already started this thread last week under "How's this for mud in your eye." Quit looking for sympathy, and if you want to help that department, suck it up and play by their rules.

[boobarrie]

(ADSN/WFLD For only 5 years in you have quite the attitude...)

You are right, I do have quite an attitude. I don't feel I need to go back to square one with the same dept twice! I am not saying I am the best FF. I'm far from it..I don't have enough exp. to even think I do. BUT, I do have considerable knowledge and feel that being a "Rookie" TWICE is uncalled for. Would you go to Firefighter I and in six months go AGAIN? I mean...duh..Did this once with this FD, why again only a few months later?? And, I never told them I know it all. There is a Probationary period as well...with blue stripes on the helmet. The only way to get them off, is by going in a few fires with different officers so they see your actions. There is no assuming you know what you're doing, here.

Dalmation90...First, I am not seeking yours, or anybody elses "Sympathy". I merely am trying to see if anyone has had problems with training differences. My other thread was simply a way to ask how people feel about the way I was treated...if it is a common problem. There is a big difference in this topic and the last. (how I was treated VS. encountering problems with out of state training)
Before you go bitchin at me...read the topics a little bit more. I could care less about getting sympathy. What is sympathy going to do for me and my training....NOTHING!

[Dalmatian90]

Any body have some cheese & crackers? We have some really fine wine in this thread.

It is the same thread, sorry for the facts.

All the training and certification you have doesn't mean squat coming into a new organization.

They are, after all, *not* asking you to repeat Firefighter I from what I've read. 13 training meetings is a hell of a lot less hours than that. Learning the trucks and equipment, learning there own procedures, getting used to the particular tactics & strategies they use isn't repeating FFI.

You don't respect them, they're not going to respect you. That's the core of what probationary training or whatever you call it is about -- earning respect and building confidence between teammates. Your not doing anything to gain it my whining on the internet.

[ggtruckie]

Every department is differant, and so are thier techniques, it is important for every member of a team to know what the plays are. Our department does the same thing, it doesnt matter if you were the chief of another fire department you still have to go throught the basics to make sure that you are on the same page. then after that previous experiance will be taken into account. Ive only been a firefighter for 6 years and i still practice throwing ladders. So i would not take it as an insult just do the training it really isnt that much. and just because they are paid does not mean they want you out, even volunteers are weary of new recruits.

[boobarrie]

i understand the part of going through the rookie class, or any other type of refresh course. That is a great way of making sure someone knows what they say they do..but my thoughts on doing it twice doesn't change. If you run a dept, and a new guy/gal comes in and joins...they do the things you ask, and become a full voted member. Then they run with your dept as an active member for the next year, without incident. And move from there and then move back within a few months later, do you really need to make them go through the same thing you put them through a year and a half ago? "This is a hose,...this is a portable extinguisher.."

I am 100% for training. I attend all the drills I possiblly can, as well as classes. You do learn something new every day. I am totally aware of that point. But, to make a former "Member" go through basic orientation to the fire service twice in that short of a period just doesn't seem like a good use of time. Am I right? Shouldn't they be more concerned with letting me further advance my knowledge and experience by attending classes that better suit my training level? Example..If I am firefighter I, shouldn't they try to encourage me to go for firefighter II or something similar? Why the old "this is a hose...this is a portable extinguisher..." routine?

I'm not saying that I am too good for training meetings, or drills or anything. Like I said, I attended all I could while I was there before. I may have missed 2 or 3 in a year and a half...out of 4 per month. I love going to drills, I find it fun as well as knowledgable. Dalmation90, I'm not trying to whine, I'm simply stating my opinion...if you don't like it..please don't reply...because you are only making yourself look bad. I could care less about how other think of my opinions...because they are only opinions...I do what I am asked and if I disagree this strongly, I voice that opinion in the way I feel may help me. If it doesn't help me...then I may learn something in the process.

[Jeff Hendricks]

just think about how good you'll be after going through the academy again. Time to suck it up brother, and all your experience could possibly help others in the academy. You need to prove that you know your stuff...Also the 13 meetings are to rub shoulders with the others. Im a paid f/f in a combo dept and we get new vollies all the time, some work out some dont. I dont rely on any that i dont know, and some that i do no i dont think i can count on. Im not bad mouthing my department its just the truth. Experience, training, a positive attitude and good old fashoned common sense can take you a long way.

[huff317]

Jaws,
You said it all just about. And as far as not trusting some of the ones you know, that is pretty much the nature of the beast for vollie departments---"you dance with the one who brung ya".
Boobarrie, chill out man, things will work out. You know this. Just take all this advice, suck it up, and press on. Be a trooper, and impress by actions, not words, it WILL work out.
BTW, I, too, have been in about 6 years, and I don't even have FF 1 to show for it. I have PLENTY of experience, but I learned a little too late that keeping up with your own training records is as vital in the Fire service as it is in the military. So, I only have just under a 100 hours for all that time. IT IS very frustrating at times, but ya just gotta do what cha gotta do. In this case, I'm just gonna keep on fightin fire, certs or no certs, till the fire tells me I HAVE to quit!

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: huff317 ]

[nichmar]

check out the post from FD111 in "how's this for mud in you eye" interesting huh!

[fireman8880]

I have to agree with most everyone's replys that you should just suck it up. Yeah you were the quiet one that showed up at the station but I don't remember you showing up all the times to go over the trucks. hmmm?? Nope don't remember, but I do remember you always finding time to come by the station and tie up the phone lines for long periods of time. I can only remember you being at few calls. Lets be specific. According to records you were an active member from 10/28/99 through 9/13/00. In that time which doesn't add up to a year and a half you made 12 training meetings out of a possible 48 give or take a few for holidays. You managed to make it to a scene or standby at the station 89 times out of 1,271 total calls. Your total man hours for scenes totaled 71.93 hours. 1 year at a department barely gives time for anyone to become use to you and your work habits. Most departments, career or volunteer, have a 1 year probationary time in which you can't even go to the restroom without telling someone in most cases. This department is very laid back in most aspects and I don't think you need to be bashing it on the internet where it'll be seen by other members of that dept. I've been hear six years and it took me almost 4 hard years to earn the hours for basic cert through SFFMA. Now being commisioned I have the time in to be advanced through SFFMA but it still doesn't make me the perfect firefighter. SFFMA is very picky about training hours and where they can be submitted from. NJ standards may be different from what SFFMA looks for. According to record you had 239 hours towards the basic certification which requires only 167 hours. However you lacked sufficient hours in 7 catagories. I can't tell you if all of your hours transferred from NJ or not, your file doesn't have any copies of certs from anywhere in the world. I'm sorry you felt this to be a burden on you and a waste of your time to relearn the basics that are SO important to all of us in the line of duty. Good luck to you in the future and HAPPY TRAINING!!!!!
ROOKIE!!!!!

[fireman8880]

WOW this topic thread sure got quiet!!!!

[Eng522ine]

FFJB... quit your damn whining. I'm in my 3rd probie year. Well, more correctly, I'm now with my 3rd company serving my probationary year. Mind you, all three of the companies I have belonged to are all in the same town! Yes, it TOTALLY SUCKS having 5 years in, state certified FF/EMT, etc... and being a probie again but, I decided to move, as did you, and I knew the consequences, as did you. I don't know why you seem to feel you deserve special treatment, the rules say what they say and apparently you have a group of professionals on your hands that believe in following the rules. You're nobody special, just another set of hands that need to be proven to this department. So, my suggestion to you would be.... GET OVER YOURSELF and do what needs to be done.